Question re AGP slot and video card

"Ben Pope" <spam.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c0gn0p$16ul9b$1@ID-191149.news.uni-berlin.de...
 > Mary wrote:
  > > I have a P3, Soyo board with 800 CPU with AGP slot 1X/2X, ATI Xpert
2000,
  > > 32M video card, 256M RAM.
  > > I have seen some video cards at a good price, for example an ATI 9000,
  > > with 128M,8X, and ATI 7500 with 64M, 2/4X. But my computer BIOS only
  > > supports up to 2X for AGP.Will those cards work in my computer? I think
  > > the 7500 with 64M would work, but what about a 8X, 128M 9000 card? I
know
  > > they would be restricted by the AGP slot, but would they be an
  > > improvement in speed on my system? I would like one that will last for a
  > > future upgrade which won't be for a few months. I play computer games,
  > > mostly adventure, but sometimes action/adventure.Do I need to make sure
  > > to get a video card that is DX 9.0 compliant?
 >
 > The problem will be finding a performance card that can accept AGP 2x,
they
 > changed the voltages and often the cards just can't go in.

Hi Ben, Do you mean that some AGP cards may not fit into my AGP slot on my
motherboard?

 > Cards that will go into a 2x AGP slot will often not be that great in
terms
 > of performance.
 >
 > I think a 9200 will be the best card you can use, so I'd have to recommend
 > that.

I will keep that in mind. Does 9200 come in 64M and 128M?

 > DX9.0 compliance... depends if the games you want to play require DX9, or
 > whether they can drop down to DX8.0 features. At this stage of the game,
 > and considering how long you kept your last video card, I'd probably
 > recommend DX9.0 support. I think the 9200 is DX8.0, but I've seen Prince
of
 > Persia run on one and it's not too shabby.

I am using DX8.1 at the moment which has been ok so far. But future games
will require D 9.0. Adventure games, which is what I usually play are not as
demanding of system resources as action/shooter type games, except maybe
adventure games like Uru, which I am not interested in.

 > I'd recommend holding off on the video card until you can upgrade your
 > motherboard as well, that way you can go for a 9600, which would be the
 > minimum card I'd recommend for serious 3d gaming... unfortunately you'll
 > likely be looking at Motherboard/CPU/RAM and video card, which is a pretty
 > hefty upgrade.

Yes, but I usually upgrade bit by bit. I think I am ok for 256M ram for a
while. The motherboard, cpu and video card will have to be upgraded maybe in
a few months. For now, the video card I have is ok for the games I play,
but I saw good prices for some 7500's and 9000, so I just thought I might
get a video card now to save me from getting it later. What I wonder
is -will 7000 series and 9000 series cards, especially the 8X and 128M ones,
even work on my system.

 > I could be wrong as to which cards support which features, so see what
 > others have to say.
 >
 > Ben

Thanks for your input.

Mary<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question re AGP slot and video card 

Mary wrote:
 > "Ben Pope" <spam.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
 > news:c0gn0p$16ul9b$1@ID-191149.news.uni-berlin.de...
  >> The problem will be finding a performance card that can accept AGP 2x,
  >> they changed the voltages and often the cards just can't go in.
 >
 > Hi Ben, Do you mean that some AGP cards may not fit into my AGP slot on my
 > motherboard?

I get a little confused about AGP, but there was AGP and AGP Pro... they are
physical differences. But I think that there is also a difference in the
keying when they changed the voltage (I think 2x is 3.3V, 4x is maybe 2.5V),
to prevent damage to video cards.

  >> Cards that will go into a 2x AGP slot will often not be that great in
  >> terms of performance.
  >>
  >> I think a 9200 will be the best card you can use, so I'd have to
  >> recommend that.
 >
 > I will keep that in mind. Does 9200 come in 64M and 128M?

For a start there are 3 basic 9200 models:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ati.com/products/radeon9200/radeon9200/compare.html" target="_blank">http://www.ati.com/products/radeon9200/radeon9200/compare.html</a>

Basically the SE is crippled, compared to the other two.

Then you can get various memory onboard. Sapphire make the largest range I
know:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.sapphiretech.com/vga/9200.asp" target="_blank">http://www.sapphiretech.com/vga/9200.asp</a>

According to that, there are indeed, 64 and 128MB versions.

  >> DX9.0 compliance... depends if the games you want to play require DX9, or
  >> whether they can drop down to DX8.0 features. At this stage of the game,
  >> and considering how long you kept your last video card, I'd probably
  >> recommend DX9.0 support. I think the 9200 is DX8.0, but I've seen
  >> Prince of Persia run on one and it's not too shabby.
 >
 > I am using DX8.1 at the moment which has been ok so far. But future games
 > will require D 9.0. Adventure games, which is what I usually play are not
 > as demanding of system resources as action/shooter type games, except
 > maybe adventure games like Uru, which I am not interested in.

Yep... it kind of all depends on the games you want to play.

  >> I'd recommend holding off on the video card until you can upgrade your
  >> motherboard as well, that way you can go for a 9600, which would be the
  >> minimum card I'd recommend for serious 3d gaming... unfortunately you'll
  >> likely be looking at Motherboard/CPU/RAM and video card, which is a
  >> pretty hefty upgrade.
 >
 > Yes, but I usually upgrade bit by bit. I think I am ok for 256M ram for a
 > while. The motherboard, cpu and video card will have to be upgraded maybe
 > in a few months. For now, the video card I have is ok for the games I
 > play, but I saw good prices for some 7500's and 9000, so I just thought I
 > might get a video card now to save me from getting it later. What I wonder
 > is -will 7000 series and 9000 series cards, especially the 8X and 128M
 > ones, even work on my system.

Memory size is irrelevant in terms of compatibility... as far as I know, the
7000 and 9000 cards will work on 2x AGP, as well as the 9200.

I can't comment on the performance of the 7000 or 9000 cards. I suspect
that the 9200 would be enough for you, but you may be able to get away with
a 7000 or 9000.

Ben
--
A7N8X FAQ: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html" target="_blank">www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html</a>
Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question re AGP slot and video card 

Ben (or anyone), I should have mentioned prices. I don't want to buy an
expensive card. A low end Radeon is probably ok for my needs. Thats why I
menjtioned a 7500, 64MB which is $65.00 Canadian $. (I am in Canada, but
probably similar to US prices for video cards). The 9000 here is $85.00, but
128MB. I saw the box in the store and it says 2X/4X so wouldn't that run on
my system?The 9200, 128M which you mentioned is $98.00. The 9800SE is
cheaper at $75.00.

Mary


"Ben Pope" <spam.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c0gn0p$16ul9b$1@ID-191149.news.uni-berlin.de...
 > Mary wrote:
  > > I have a P3, Soyo board with 800 CPU with AGP slot 1X/2X, ATI Xpert
2000,
  > > 32M video card, 256M RAM.
  > > I have seen some video cards at a good price, for example an ATI 9000,
  > > with 128M,8X, and ATI 7500 with 64M, 2/4X. But my computer BIOS only
  > > supports up to 2X for AGP.Will those cards work in my computer? I think
  > > the 7500 with 64M would work, but what about a 8X, 128M 9000 card? I
know
  > > they would be restricted by the AGP slot, but would they be an
  > > improvement in speed on my system? I would like one that will last for a
  > > future upgrade which won't be for a few months. I play computer games,
  > > mostly adventure, but sometimes action/adventure.Do I need to make sure
  > > to get a video card that is DX 9.0 compliant?
 >
 > The problem will be finding a performance card that can accept AGP 2x,
they
 > changed the voltages and often the cards just can't go in.
 >
 > Cards that will go into a 2x AGP slot will often not be that great in
terms
 > of performance.
 >
 > I think a 9200 will be the best card you can use, so I'd have to recommend
 > that.
 >
 > DX9.0 compliance... depends if the games you want to play require DX9, or
 > whether they can drop down to DX8.0 features. At this stage of the game,
 > and considering how long you kept your last video card, I'd probably
 > recommend DX9.0 support. I think the 9200 is DX8.0, but I've seen Prince
of
 > Persia run on one and it's not too shabby.
 >
 > I'd recommend holding off on the video card until you can upgrade your
 > motherboard as well, that way you can go for a 9600, which would be the
 > minimum card I'd recommend for serious 3d gaming... unfortunately you'll
 > likely be looking at Motherboard/CPU/RAM and video card, which is a pretty
 > hefty upgrade.
 >
 > I could be wrong as to which cards support which features, so see what
 > others have to say.
 >
 > Ben
 > --
<font color=purple> > A7N8X FAQ: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html</font" target="_blank">www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html</font</a>>
 > Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
 > I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question re AGP slot and video card 

"Ben Pope" <spam RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c0grap$16phre$1@ID-191149.news.uni-berlin.de...
 > Mary wrote:
  > > "Ben Pope" <spam RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
  > > news:c0gn0p$16ul9b$1@ID-191149.news.uni-berlin.de...
   > >> The problem will be finding a performance card that can accept AGP 2x,
   > >> they changed the voltages and often the cards just can't go in.
  > >
  > > Hi Ben, Do you mean that some AGP cards may not fit into my AGP slot on
my
  > > motherboard?
 >
 > I get a little confused about AGP, but there was AGP and AGP Pro... they
are
 > physical differences. But I think that there is also a difference in the
 > keying when they changed the voltage (I think 2x is 3.3V, 4x is maybe
2.5V),
 > to prevent damage to video cards.

Most people I know seem to have just had the AGP, not the AGP pro, though
maybe a lot of people also have AGP pro for all I know.

I just took a look at ATI web page and there is a chart about voltages and
which card will work with 2X,4X,8X and it looks like all Radeons will work
in 2X (3.3V) slots. Someone here posted the URL to that page on ATI and I
just came on it by chance when I was on ATI.

   > >> Cards that will go into a 2x AGP slot will often not be that great in
   > >> terms of performance.
   > >>
   > >> I think a 9200 will be the best card you can use, so I'd have to
   > >> recommend that.
  > >
  > > I will keep that in mind. Does 9200 come in 64M and 128M?
 >
 > For a start there are 3 basic 9200 models:
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ati.com/products/radeon9200/radeon9200/compare.html</font" target="_blank">http://www.ati.com/products/radeon9200/radeon9200/compare.html</font</a>>

 > Basically the SE is crippled, compared to the other two.

I just posted another message about prices here, and I mentioned the 9200SE
being quite cheap, but I had heard it wasn't as good as some other cards in
a similar price range. It might be OK for my urposes though.

 > Then you can get various memory onboard. Sapphire make the largest range
I
 > know:
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.sapphiretech.com/vga/9200.asp</font" target="_blank">http://www.sapphiretech.com/vga/9200.asp</font</a>>
 >
 > According to that, there are indeed, 64 and 128MB versions.

I have heard that Sapphire has quite a good reputation. I think I prefer to
get the ATI brand name.

  > > in a few months. For now, the video card I have is ok for the games I
  > > play, but I saw good prices for some 7500's and 9000, so I just thought
I
  > > might get a video card now to save me from getting it later. What I
wonder
  > > is -will 7000 series and 9000 series cards, especially the 8X and 128M
  > > ones, even work on my system.
 >
 > Memory size is irrelevant in terms of compatibility... as far as I know,
the
 > 7000 and 9000 cards will work on 2x AGP, as well as the 9200.

Yes, thats what it seems to say on the ATI site article I just read, but it
is understood that a faster video card than I have, would be limiting on my
computer because of my AGP slot limitation. It would probably be improved
over what I have though. If my system will work with a 128M card, I might be
as well getting it instead of 64MB.

 > I can't comment on the performance of the 7000 or 9000 cards. I suspect
 > that the 9200 would be enough for you, but you may be able to get away
with
 > a 7000 or 9000.

Probably, and as I said, I don't want or need any high priced card. I am
thinking of the 7500 or the 9000, but the 7500 is a lot cheaper. The 9800 SE
is about the same price as the 7500 though.

Mary<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question re AGP slot and video card 

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:49:39 GMT, "Mary" <unreal RemoveThis @invalid.com> wrote:

 >I have a P3, Soyo board with 800 CPU with AGP slot 1X/2X, ATI Xpert 2000,
 >32M video card, 256M RAM.
 >I have seen some video cards at a good price, for example an ATI 9000, with
 >128M,8X, and ATI 7500 with 64M, 2/4X. But my computer BIOS only supports up
 >to 2X for AGP.Will those cards work in my computer? I think the 7500 with
 >64M would work, but what about a 8X, 128M 9000 card? I know they would be
 >restricted by the AGP slot, but would they be an improvement in speed on my
 >system? I would like one that will last for a future upgrade which won't be
 >for a few months. I play computer games, mostly adventure, but sometimes
 >action/adventure.Do I need to make sure to get a video card that is DX 9.0
 >compliant?


Read the other posts.

Get the 9000AGP, it will WORK just fine in your system. Its not state
of the art, but will play many games okay. Dont expect to play NEW
top END games...

Your whole system is too slow for serious gaming, if you don't need
that, then don't worry about it.... the 9000 is a big upgrade over the
expert2000.


Don't worry about AGP-PRO... its never took off, never will. Its dead.


Don't worry about DX9.0 (9000s are DX8) - those are more for serious
gamer and then you're talking about needing a better video card
(9600PRO) and a whole new computer (2000+ Mhz / 512mb, etc).

A 9600PRO video card would be useless in your system. (It wouldnt be
faster than the 9000)


--
Remember when real men used Real computers!?
When 512K of video RAM was a lot!

Death to Palladium & WPA!!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question re AGP slot and video card 

Mary, you may need to install DX9 to play some new games, but your video
card doesn't have to be a DX9 card.
A DX9 card can use "DX9 only" features, but no current game that I know of
requires DX9 hardware. They are backwards compatible. However, for some new
games you need to install DX9 on your computer. You'll need it to decode
games that are programmed in DX9. Think of the different DX versions as
different programming languages. The newer DX9 'language' is backwards
compatible, so it'll decode the older DX8, DX7, etc. But, DX8, being older,
cannot be forward compatible, of course. So, you may need to install DX9
(the software) but you don't need a DX9 video card (the hardware). Once DX9
is installed on your computer, it's fully backwards compatible with older
games and older video cards.

Gary


--
Tweaks & Reviews
www.slottweak.com
 >> Stay informed about: Question re AGP slot and video card 

Gary, thank you so much for your explanation about DX9 in regard to video
cards and games.
Your explanation makes everything clear.

Mary

"GTX_SlotCar" <deroy.RemoveThis@maine.rr.com> wrote in message
news:c0j5rm$16o2rd$1@ID-153646.news.uni-berlin.de...
 > Mary, you may need to install DX9 to play some new games, but your video
 > card doesn't have to be a DX9 card.
 > A DX9 card can use "DX9 only" features, but no current game that I know of
 > requires DX9 hardware. They are backwards compatible. However, for some
new
 > games you need to install DX9 on your computer. You'll need it to decode
 > games that are programmed in DX9. Think of the different DX versions as
 > different programming languages. The newer DX9 'language' is backwards
 > compatible, so it'll decode the older DX8, DX7, etc. But, DX8, being
older,
 > cannot be forward compatible, of course. So, you may need to install DX9
 > (the software) but you don't need a DX9 video card (the hardware). Once
DX9
 > is installed on your computer, it's fully backwards compatible with older
 > games and older video cards.
 >
 > Gary
 >
 >
 > --
 > Tweaks & Reviews
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.slottweak.com</font" target="_blank">www.slottweak.com</font</a>>
 >
 >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question re AGP slot and video card 

Just note that Radeon9200 series is ALSO DX8.1 cards, just like
Radeon8500/9000/9100...
 >> Stay informed about: Question re AGP slot and video card