ATA 100 & ATA133

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:36:19 -0500, "Woodchuck"
<stv_euroski.TakeThisOut@yahoo.comXXX> wrote:

 >I purchased a Maxtor 250g which includes their ATA133 PCI board. The
 >question is since my MB supports ATA100 is there much of a performance if I
 >don't use the Maxtor board?

You won't notice any performance difference.

The main reason Maxtor included that pci board is because lots of
older mobo's didn't support disks of that size and this pci board
does.

You should check if your mobo supports disks larger then 137GB, or if
there is a bios update for the board that adds it. The term to look
for is "48 bit LBA addressing".

If the mobo doesn't support it you can use the ata133 pci board.

 >The new drive will be installed as "D" since
 >some of my software installed on "C" is registered and references to
 >something on the drive to run. I have tried to move the software to another
 >drive and it' will not run. The new drive will be used mainly for video
 >editing and so far I have had no issues with the present ATA100 drive. Just
 >needed more space...
 >
 >
 >TIA
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ATA 100 & ATA133 

"Will Dormann" <wdormann.DeleteThis@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote in message news:RvfKb.21623$_q5.2212@fe2.columbus.rr.com
 > Woodchuck wrote:
 >
  > > I purchased a Maxtor 250g which includes their ATA133 PCI board. The
  > > question is since my MB supports ATA100 is there much of a performance if I
  > > don't use the Maxtor board?
 >
 > No, it'll work fine.

 > Video editing work requires mostly a high sustained transfer rate.

Nonsense.

 > The transfer rate for a single drive will be
 > well under the limit of the ATA100 interface.

Actually, the single track transfer rate of some current drives may well
challenge that. With todays huge capacity drives a single track (or a cylinder)
may fit most (contiguous) files.


 >
 > -WD<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ATA 100 & ATA133 

"Woodchuck" <stv_euroski DeleteThis @yahoo.comXXX> wrote in message news:3ff95512$0$35840$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com
 > I purchased a Maxtor 250g which includes their ATA133 PCI board.

 > The question is since my MB supports ATA100 is there much of a
 > performance hit if I don't use the Maxtor board?

Not with single (physical or logical) drive per channel usage.

 > The new drive will be installed as "D" since
 > some of my software installed on "C" is registered and references to
 > something on the drive to run. I have tried to move the software to another
 > drive and it' will not run. The new drive will be used mainly for video
 > editing and so far I have had no issues with the present ATA100 drive.
 > Just needed more space...
 >
 >
 > TIA<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ATA 100 & ATA133 

"Woodchuck" <stv_euroski DeleteThis @yahoo.comXXX> wrote in message
news:3ff95512$0$35840$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com...
 > I purchased a Maxtor 250g which includes their ATA133 PCI board. The
 > question is since my MB supports ATA100 is there much of a performance if
I
 > don't use the Maxtor board? The new drive will be installed as "D" since
 > some of my software installed on "C" is registered and references to
 > something on the drive to run. I have tried to move the software to
another
 > drive and it' will not run. The new drive will be used mainly for video
 > editing and so far I have had no issues with the present ATA100 drive.
Just
 > needed more space...


We've gone a few rounds on this subject matter in the
alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus newsgroup. That discussion relates to
theP4C800-E Deluxe motherboard, but it might apply to your question, as
well. That mb has onboard ATA100, and also a Promise RAID controller that
can be run as an ATA133 IDE host adapter (non-raid). I (and others) have run
benchmarks that have shown remarkable results. I'm going to cite mine below,
but if you wish to see the remaining posts in this thread, check into the
asus newsgroup.

XP Pro SP1 with 4GB PC2100 and P4-1600 (HD Tach 2.7):

Western Digital 200GB 8M cache boot drive on IDE port:

Random access: 13.8ms
Read burst speed: 28.1MB/s
Read speed average 26.4 MB/s
CPU Utilization: 5.3%

Maxtor 250GB 8M cache drive on Promise port (non-raid):

Random access: 14.3ms
Read burst speed: 106.1MB/s
Read speed average 50.3 MB/s
CPU Utilization: 5.4%

Seagate ST318452LW 15k on LSI Logic U/160:

Random access: 5.9ms
Read burst speed: 82.3MB/s
Read speed average 55.5MB/s
CPU Utilization: 5.9%

COMMENT: The difference between similar drives on the IDE and Promise
controllers is astonishing, almost hard to believe. Burst speed even exceeds
the 15k drive. Of course, no IDE can get close to a 15k hard drive for
random access.

I also have a Maxtor Atlas 15k 73GB hard drive, one of the world's fastest
drive's, to be installed (storagereview.com). This setup is for video
editing. A two hour avi exported from an 8MM tape is around 25GB, too large
for my Seagate 15k, thus, the Atlas.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ATA 100 & ATA133 

Woodchuck <stv_euroski DeleteThis @yahoo.comXXX> wrote in message
news:3ff95512$0$35840$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com...

 > I purchased a Maxtor 250g which includes their ATA133 PCI
 > board. The question is since my MB supports ATA100 is there
 > much of a performance if I don't use the Maxtor board?

Nope, none.

 > The new drive will be installed as "D" since some of my
 > software installed on "C" is registered and references to
 > something on the drive to run. I have tried to move the
 > software to another drive and it' will not run.

You should be able to make the new drive the boot drive
if you want to do that. You just have to do it the right way.

 > The new drive will be used mainly for video editing
 > and so far I have had no issues with the present
 > ATA100 drive. Just needed more space...

And the PCI card will be limited by the PCI bus anyway.

One other consideration is support for drives over 137GB
tho. The motherboard bios may not have that, but can
often be flashed with the latest version to support that.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ATA 100 & ATA133 

Z Man <z1z DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ahnKb.20786$Ui2.5579383@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
 > Woodchuck <stv_euroski DeleteThis @yahoo.comXXX> wrote

  >> I purchased a Maxtor 250g which includes their ATA133 PCI board.
  >> The question is since my MB supports ATA100 is there much of a
  >> performance if I don't use the Maxtor board? The new drive will be
  >> installed as "D" since some of my software installed on "C" is
  >> registered and references to something on the drive to run. I have
  >> tried to move the software to another drive and it' will not run. The
  >> new drive will be used mainly for video editing and so far I have had
  >> no issues with the present ATA100 drive. Just needed more space...

 > We've gone a few rounds on this subject matter in the
 > alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus newsgroup. That discussion
 > relates to theP4C800-E Deluxe motherboard, but it might apply
 > to your question, as well. That mb has onboard ATA100, and
 > also a Promise RAID controller that can be run as an ATA133
 > IDE host adapter (non-raid). I (and others) have run benchmarks
 > that have shown remarkable results. I'm going to cite mine
 > below, but if you wish to see the remaining posts in this
 > thread, check into the asus newsgroup.

 > XP Pro SP1 with 4GB PC2100 and P4-1600 (HD Tach 2.7):

 > Western Digital 200GB 8M cache boot drive on IDE port:

 > Random access: 13.8ms
 > Read burst speed: 28.1MB/s
 > Read speed average 26.4 MB/s
 > CPU Utilization: 5.3%

 > Maxtor 250GB 8M cache drive on Promise port (non-raid):

 > Random access: 14.3ms
 > Read burst speed: 106.1MB/s
 > Read speed average 50.3 MB/s
 > CPU Utilization: 5.4%

Those are pretty useless numbers. You'd have to
benchmark the reverse config before they show
anything much useful, and the numbers make no real
sense as far as JUST ATA100 and 133 is concerned.

Looks rather like the IDE port doesnt have the
best driver for the chipset being used if that half
read speed is seen with the reverse config too.

The only thing that makes any real sense for
him is to try both configs himself with HDTach.

 > Seagate ST318452LW 15k on LSI Logic U/160:

 > Random access: 5.9ms
 > Read burst speed: 82.3MB/s
 > Read speed average 55.5MB/s
 > CPU Utilization: 5.9%

 > COMMENT: The difference between similar drives on the IDE
 > and Promise controllers is astonishing, almost hard to believe.

Yep, makes no real sense so its an artifact.

 > Burst speed even exceeds the 15k drive.

And burst speed is essentially irrelevant for real world
work anyway and is likely just an inappropriate driver with
the IDE tests. The SCSI test is completely irrelevant.

 > Of course, no IDE can get close to
 > a 15k hard drive for random access.

Doesnt have a damned thing to do with
IDE either. Thats just the physical drive.

 > I also have a Maxtor Atlas 15k 73GB hard drive, one of the world's
 > fastest drive's, to be installed (storagereview.com). This setup is
 > for video editing. A two hour avi exported from an 8MM tape is
 > around 25GB, too large for my Seagate 15k, thus, the Atlas.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ATA 100 & ATA133 

I got a reply back from Gigabyte stating my MB(GA-8PE667) will see HD's over
the 137g as one drive. Next question, what is the typical continuous
transfer rates for today's ATA/ATA133 hard drives once you get past the
advertised "burst speed"?
 >> Stay informed about: ATA 100 & ATA133 

"Rod Speed" wrote:
 > Woodchuck wrote:
 >
  > > I purchased a Maxtor 250g which includes their ATA133 PCI
  > > board....
  > > The new drive will be used mainly for video editing
  > > and so far I have had no issues with the present
  > > ATA100 drive. Just needed more space...
 >
 > And the PCI card will be limited by the PCI bus anyway.


Assuming that just one device is actually transferring data
to/from an ATA133 PCI controller card, can that controller
card actually be limited by the speed of the PCI channel?


*TimDaniels*<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ATA 100 & ATA133 

"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels RemoveThis @NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message
news:X_adndALYbArq2aiRVn-gw@comcast.com...

  > > And the PCI card will be limited by the PCI bus anyway.
 >
 >
 > Assuming that just one device is actually transferring data
 > to/from an ATA133 PCI controller card, can that controller
 > card actually be limited by the speed of the PCI channel?
 >
There are typically 4-12 PCI devices sharing the bus. On typical desktop, it
is only hard drives that take a big chunk out of the 133MB/s total.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ATA 100 & ATA133 

On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 07:34:45 -0500, "Woodchuck"
<stv_euroski.DeleteThis@yahoo.comXXX> wrote:

 >I got a reply back from Gigabyte stating my MB(GA-8PE667) will see HD's over
 >the 137g as one drive. Next question, what is the typical continuous
 >transfer rates for today's ATA/ATA133 hard drives once you get past the
 >advertised "burst speed"?

A modern IDE 7200 rpm disk will usually reach 50 to 60MB/s max,
dropping down to something like 30MB/s max at the end of the disk.

You can find these numbers in every review on the net.

Which is usually plenty for videoediting. DV uses just 6MB/s
(that's not a typo. DV is just six MB/s. So even an single older IDE
disk can easily handle that)

I've heard that people with primitive editing software who don't use
the DV format, want higher transfer rate values, but I cannot confirm
that. They might just be uninformed.

In any case, your editing software supplier should also be able to
tell you what transfer rate values you need.

Marc<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ATA 100 & ATA133 

"Z Man" <z1z DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message news:ahnKb.20786$Ui2.5579383@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net
 > "Woodchuck" <stv_euroski DeleteThis @yahoo.comXXX> wrote in message news:3ff95512$0$35840$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com...
  > > I purchased a Maxtor 250g which includes their ATA133 PCI board. The
  > > question is since my MB supports ATA100 is there much of a performance if I
  > > don't use the Maxtor board? The new drive will be installed as "D" since
  > > some of my software installed on "C" is registered and references to
  > > something on the drive to run. I have tried to move the software to another
  > > drive and it' will not run. The new drive will be used mainly for video
  > > editing and so far I have had no issues with the present ATA100 drive. Just
  > > needed more space...
 >
 >
 > We've gone a few rounds on this subject matter in the
 > alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus newsgroup. That discussion relates to
 > theP4C800-E Deluxe motherboard, but it might apply to your question, as
 > well. That mb has onboard ATA100, and also a Promise RAID controller that
 > can be run as an ATA133 IDE host adapter (non-raid). I (and others) have run
 > benchmarks that have shown remarkable results. I'm going to cite mine below,
 > but if you wish to see the remaining posts in this thread, check into the
 > asus newsgroup.
 >
 > XP Pro SP1 with 4GB PC2100 and P4-1600 (HD Tach 2.7):
 >
 > Western Digital 200GB 8M cache boot drive on IDE port:
 >
 > Random access: 13.8ms
 > Read burst speed: 28.1MB/s
 > Read speed average 26.4 MB/s
 > CPU Utilization: 5.3%

Most likely run with a 40 conductor cable.

 >
 > Maxtor 250GB 8M cache drive on Promise port (non-raid):
 >
 > Random access: 14.3ms
 > Read burst speed: 106.1MB/s
 > Read speed average 50.3 MB/s
 > CPU Utilization: 5.4%
 >
 > Seagate ST318452LW 15k on LSI Logic U/160:
 >
 > Random access: 5.9ms
 > Read burst speed: 82.3MB/s
 > Read speed average 55.5MB/s
 > CPU Utilization: 5.9%
 >
 > COMMENT: The difference between similar drives on the IDE and Promise
 > controllers is astonishing, almost hard to believe.

So obviously something is wrong.

 > Burst speed even exceeds the 15k drive.

Problem is that it isn't the burst speed that is measured but a same sector
read from the drive and that what you see is cache behaviour, not bus speed.

 > Of course, no IDE can get close to a 15k hard drive for random access.
 >
 > I also have a Maxtor Atlas 15k 73GB hard drive, one of the world's fastest
 > drive's, to be installed (storagereview.com). This setup is for video editing.
 > A two hour avi exported from an 8MM tape is around 25GB, too large
 > for my Seagate 15k, thus, the Atlas.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ATA 100 & ATA133 

"Woodchuck" <stv_euroski.DeleteThis@yahoo.comXXX> wrote in message news:3ffaa62b$0$35836$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com...
 > I got a reply back from Gigabyte stating my MB(GA-8PE667) will see HD's
 > over the 137g as one drive. Next question, what is the typical continuous
 > transfer rates for today's ATA/ATA133 hard drives once you get past the

 > advertised "burst speed"?

They advertise burst speeds now?

 >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ATA 100 & ATA133 

Woodchuck <stv_euroski DeleteThis @yahoo.comXXX> wrote in message
news:3ffaa62b$0$35836$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com...

 > I got a reply back from Gigabyte stating my MB(GA-8PE667)
 > will see HD's over the 137g as one drive. Next question, what
 > is the typical continuous transfer rates for today's ATA/ATA133
 > hard drives once you get past the advertised "burst speed"?

That varys a lot depending on how the drive is used.

The best way to get a look at that is the reviews at storagereview etc
where the transfer rates are show in various types of disk activity.
It makes a very big difference if you are moving a very large file or if
the OS is doing quite a bit of disk activity in a multitasking environment.

Presumably what you care about is thruput with big video files.
There are various utes that measure that sort of thruput for
that rather unusual situation with personal desktop PCs.

The short story is that you're unlikely to see any difference
with that drive on the motherboard controller, even tho it
can only do ATA/100 max. The physical drive cant actually
do any better than that anyway and a PCI controller is
also limited by what the PCI bus can do too.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ATA 100 & ATA133