 |
|
|
|
Next: The death of non-x86 is now at hand?
|
| Author |
Message |
External
Since: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: 4
|
(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:33 am
Post subject: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems
Archived from groups: comp>sys>ibm>pc>hardware>chips (more info?)
|
|
|
Hi all,
I'm getting a bit desperate about the following problem, hopefully
someone could point me into the right direction:
I'm not a computer hardware expert, but I usually am capable enough to
build my own PC with the components I prefer. Friday last week I
bought new components for my PC. My system is dual bootable
(win2000/mandrake 9.2). In my new setup linux seems to give problems
with my HDD. It freezes with partitioning/formatting. The particular
HDD gives no problems with my old PC. While starting up the computer,
I noticed my extra Promise UDMA133 controller usues the same IRQ
(IRQ11) as the USB controller *and* display controller. IMO this seems
like conflicting hardware. However, I installed win2k at another 80GB
Maxtor HDD with the very same Promise controller without any problems.
I tried to reserve IRQ11 in the BIOS, but when I do this the PC
assigns all above mentioned devices to IRQ5. I tried the Promise card
in another PCI slot without results.
As I said before, in my old PC this HDD performs well, linux installs
just fine. However, when I do this and move the HDD to my new PC, it
will boot linux eventually, but it will crash at a moment for certain.
I removed the Promise UDMA133 controller and used only the onboard
UDMA133 controller. Partitioned and formatted the linux HDD and now
linux would even install correctly, but after some time it will freeze
and ruin the user account permanently.
My old system: 230W noname PSU / Asus P2B-F (BX) / 1GHz Celeron
(Cu-mine) / 512MB PC100 / 3x Maxtor 80GB / GeForce2 / Promise UDMA133
/ onboard DMA33 / DVD-ROM / DVD-RW / FDD. DVD players at the onboard
controller, 2x win HDD at Promise IDE1, 1x linux HDD at Promise IDE2.
New system: 350W Aopen PSU / Asus A7N8X-X (nForce2) / Athlon 2500 /
512MB PC3200 / 3x Maxtor 80GB / GeForce2 / Promise UDMA133 / onboard
UDMA133 / DVD-ROM / DVD-RW / FDD.
I'm a bit lost now. I was thinking that linux gives problems for some
reason with the nForce 2 chipset, since win2k installs and runs
without any problems. Could this be? Has anyone compareble
experiences? If so, how were these problems solved? Is it a Mandrake
specific problem? For the time being I didn't try another distro,
although both Mandrake 9.1 and 9.2 gave the same errors  All
feedback is highly appreciated!
Regards,
Chris |
|
| Back to top |
|
 | |
External
Since: Nov 06, 2003
Posts: 288
|
(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Chris wrote:
> New system: 350W Aopen PSU / Asus A7N8X-X (nForce2) / Athlon 2500 /
> 512MB PC3200 / 3x Maxtor 80GB / GeForce2 / Promise UDMA133 / onboard
> UDMA133 / DVD-ROM / DVD-RW / FDD.
>
> I'm a bit lost now. I was thinking that linux gives problems for some
> reason with the nForce 2 chipset, since win2k installs and runs
> without any problems. Could this be?
Yes, if you have APIC enabled. Common problem with Nforce2 and Linux.
Disabling it in the BIOS should be sufficient.
-WD<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Feb 09, 2004
Posts: 1
|
(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 7:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 14:39:28 GMT, Will Dormann <wdormann.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
> Chris wrote:
> > New system: 350W Aopen PSU / Asus A7N8X-X (nForce2) / Athlon 2500 /
> > 512MB PC3200 / 3x Maxtor 80GB / GeForce2 / Promise UDMA133 / onboard
> > UDMA133 / DVD-ROM / DVD-RW / FDD.
> >
> > I'm a bit lost now. I was thinking that linux gives problems for some
> > reason with the nForce 2 chipset, since win2k installs and runs
> > without any problems. Could this be?
>
> Yes, if you have APIC enabled. Common problem with Nforce2 and Linux.
> Disabling it in the BIOS should be sufficient.
>
>
> -WD
Thanks for the quick reaction. I just did so, as well as flashing the BIOS to the newst version
(1007), unfortunately without the desired result
Regards,
Chris<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Nov 06, 2003
Posts: 288
|
(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 8:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
wish wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 14:39:28 GMT, Will Dormann <wdormann.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Chris wrote:
>>
>>>New system: 350W Aopen PSU / Asus A7N8X-X (nForce2) / Athlon 2500 /
>>>512MB PC3200 / 3x Maxtor 80GB / GeForce2 / Promise UDMA133 / onboard
>>>UDMA133 / DVD-ROM / DVD-RW / FDD.
>>>
>>>I'm a bit lost now. I was thinking that linux gives problems for some
>>>reason with the nForce 2 chipset, since win2k installs and runs
>>>without any problems. Could this be?
>>
>>Yes, if you have APIC enabled. Common problem with Nforce2 and Linux.
>> Disabling it in the BIOS should be sufficient.
>>
>>
>>-WD
>
>
> Thanks for the quick reaction. I just did so, as well as flashing the BIOS to the newst version
> (1007), unfortunately without the desired result
Not sure. It might be that you need a kernel with the APIC feature
disabled? Now that APIC is disabled in your BIOS, does dmesg show
any reference to APIC?
-WD<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Feb 09, 2004
Posts: 4
|
(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 17:01:17 GMT, Will Dormann <wdormann.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
> wish wrote:
> > On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 14:39:28 GMT, Will Dormann <wdormann.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >>Chris wrote:
> >>
> >>>New system: 350W Aopen PSU / Asus A7N8X-X (nForce2) / Athlon 2500 /
> >>>512MB PC3200 / 3x Maxtor 80GB / GeForce2 / Promise UDMA133 / onboard
> >>>UDMA133 / DVD-ROM / DVD-RW / FDD.
> >>>
> >>>I'm a bit lost now. I was thinking that linux gives problems for some
> >>>reason with the nForce 2 chipset, since win2k installs and runs
> >>>without any problems. Could this be?
> >>
> >>Yes, if you have APIC enabled. Common problem with Nforce2 and Linux.
> >> Disabling it in the BIOS should be sufficient.
> >>
> >>
> >>-WD
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the quick reaction. I just did so, as well as flashing the BIOS to the newst version
> > (1007), unfortunately without the desired result
>
>
> Not sure. It might be that you need a kernel with the APIC feature
> disabled? Now that APIC is disabled in your BIOS, does dmesg show
> any reference to APIC?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It sounds logical. But to my understanding, to recompile a kernel,
one needs to have one first. That's where it already goes wrong. My linux system just froze instantly
and now I start from the beginning again: how to install linux from an iso-CD without lock-ups during
HDD partitioning
Am I the only one facing these problems? Or do linux users simply ignore nForce2 mainboards?
Regards,
Chris<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Nov 12, 2003
Posts: 56
|
(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On a sunny day (9 Feb 2004 02:33:23 -0800) it happened cleurs.TakeThisOut@wish.net (Chris)
wrote in <89660e7c.0402090233.3ba860eb.TakeThisOut@posting.google.com>:
I'm a bit lost now. I was thinking that linux gives problems for some
>reason with the nForce 2 chipset, since win2k installs and runs
>without any problems. Could this be? Has anyone compareble
>experiences? If so, how were these problems solved? Is it a Mandrake
>specific problem? For the time being I didn't try another distro,
>although both Mandrake 9.1 and 9.2 gave the same errors All
>feedback is highly appreciated!
>
>Regards,
>Chris
Check your memory
Run a fulll memory test in BIOS if available, or some test program.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Feb 09, 2004
Posts: 4
|
(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 19:28:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On a sunny day (9 Feb 2004 02:33:23 -0800) it happened cleurs.DeleteThis@wish.net (Chris)
> wrote in <89660e7c.0402090233.3ba860eb.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>:
>
> I'm a bit lost now. I was thinking that linux gives problems for some
> >reason with the nForce 2 chipset, since win2k installs and runs
> >without any problems. Could this be? Has anyone compareble
> >experiences? If so, how were these problems solved? Is it a Mandrake
> >specific problem? For the time being I didn't try another distro,
> >although both Mandrake 9.1 and 9.2 gave the same errors All
> >feedback is highly appreciated!
> >
> >Regards,
> >Chris
> Check your memory
> Run a fulll memory test in BIOS if available, or some test program.
Thanks. FWIW I thought PC3200 by Kingston would be a good choice, so that's what I bought.
Since win runs just fine, what particular memory testing software would you recommend?
Regards,
Chris<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Oct 06, 2003
Posts: 10
|
(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 19:36:55 +0000, cleurs wrote:
> Thanks. FWIW I thought PC3200 by Kingston would be a good choice, so
> that's what I bought. Since win runs just fine, what particular memory
> testing software would you recommend?
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.memtest86.com/" target="_blank">http://www.memtest86.com/</a>
Let it run for at least 24 hours. Like others have said, just because the
memory works for Windows does not guarantee it will work for Linux as each
OS uses the memory differently (or used to, anyway).
If that works OK, use <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.dejanews.com" target="_blank">www.dejanews.com</a> and search "comp.os.linux.hardware"
for tips on using Linux with a Nforce board.
--
People never lie so much as after a hunt, during a war, or before an election.
-- Otto Von Bismarck<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Nov 06, 2003
Posts: 288
|
(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
cleurs RemoveThis @wish.net wrote:
> Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It sounds logical. But to my understanding, to recompile a kernel,
> one needs to have one first. That's where it already goes wrong. My linux system just froze instantly
> and now I start from the beginning again: how to install linux from an iso-CD without lock-ups during
> HDD partitioning
Try a different distro maybe? Or if you just want to test things
out, try Knoppix.
-WD<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Nov 12, 2003
Posts: 56
|
(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:34 am
Post subject: Re: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On a sunny day (Mon, 09 Feb 2004 19:36:55 GMT) it happened cleurs.TakeThisOut@wish.net
<cleurs.TakeThisOut@wish.net> wrote in <1104_1076355415.TakeThisOut@news.demon.nl>:
>On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 19:28:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On a sunny day (9 Feb 2004 02:33:23 -0800) it happened cleurs.TakeThisOut@wish.net (Chris)
>> wrote in <89660e7c.0402090233.3ba860eb.TakeThisOut@posting.google.com>:
>>
>> I'm a bit lost now. I was thinking that linux gives problems for some
>> >reason with the nForce 2 chipset, since win2k installs and runs
>> >without any problems. Could this be? Has anyone compareble
>> >experiences? If so, how were these problems solved? Is it a Mandrake
>> >specific problem? For the time being I didn't try another distro,
>> >although both Mandrake 9.1 and 9.2 gave the same errors All
>> >feedback is highly appreciated!
>> >
>> >Regards,
>> >Chris
>> Check your memory
>> Run a fulll memory test in BIOS if available, or some test program.
>
>Thanks. FWIW I thought PC3200 by Kingston would be a good choice, so that's what I bought.
>Since win runs just fine, what particular memory testing software would you recommend?
>
This is the trick, I had a similar problem, the MS WINDOWS kernel runs in a different
part of memory (you may get data curruption somewhere lese then).
In my Tyan mobo in the BIOS is a 'full memory check option', dunno about your mobo.
Any make memory can have a problem, just exchange it if it fails the test.
C'T had a lot of good memory tests, on CD etc, but I dunno a website.
JP
>Regards,
>Chris
>
>
><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jul 02, 2004
Posts: 263
|
(Msg. 11) Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:01 am
Post subject: Re: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.memtest86.com/</font" target="_blank">http://www.memtest86.com/</font</a>>
There is a newer version out on <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.memtest.org" target="_blank">http://www.memtest.org</a> The original is
apparently no longer supported.
rms<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Oct 19, 2003
Posts: 27
|
(Msg. 12) Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:10 am
Post subject: Re: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
In article <1103_1076353149.TakeThisOut@news.demon.nl>,
cleurs.TakeThisOut@wish.net <cleurs.TakeThisOut@wish.net> writes:
> On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 17:01:17 GMT, Will Dormann <wdormann.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>> wish wrote:
>> > On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 14:39:28 GMT, Will Dormann <wdormann.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> >>Chris wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>New system: 350W Aopen PSU / Asus A7N8X-X (nForce2) / Athlon 2500 /
>> >>>512MB PC3200 / 3x Maxtor 80GB / GeForce2 / Promise UDMA133 / onboard
>> >>>UDMA133 / DVD-ROM / DVD-RW / FDD.
>> >>>
>> >>>I'm a bit lost now. I was thinking that linux gives problems for some
>> >>>reason with the nForce 2 chipset, since win2k installs and runs
>> >>>without any problems. Could this be?
>> >>
>> >>Yes, if you have APIC enabled. Common problem with Nforce2 and Linux.
>> >> Disabling it in the BIOS should be sufficient.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>-WD
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks for the quick reaction. I just did so, as well as flashing the BIOS to the newst version
>> > (1007), unfortunately without the desired result
>>
>>
>> Not sure. It might be that you need a kernel with the APIC feature
>> disabled? Now that APIC is disabled in your BIOS, does dmesg show
>> any reference to APIC?
>
> Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It sounds logical. But to my understanding, to recompile a kernel,
> one needs to have one first. That's where it already goes wrong. My linux system just froze instantly
> and now I start from the beginning again: how to install linux from an iso-CD without lock-ups during
> HDD partitioning
>
> Am I the only one facing these problems? Or do linux users simply ignore nForce2 mainboards?
>
The nForce2 is quite problematic under Linux, at the moment.
On the good side though, there are people working HARD on this, as
the nForce2 is one of the more solid and high-performing chipsets
on the Athlon family. If it's on your news feed, check out the
Linux kernel mailing list for more info.
In short, ACPI/APIC on the nForce2 is a bit of a mess, from what
I can read. On the bad side, they appear to have built some of the
ACPI tables wrong. On the good side, they have some intelligent
prefetch built in that can speed some operations up. But back on
the bad side, under certain circumstances the CPU can get badly
confused because the speedup makes the chipset deliver data too
fast.
But on the really good side, they're figuring things out and
issuing patches. There are people with ACPI and APIC running,
though there are others still with hangs.
But if you just want to work, configure the kernel to not have
ACPI or APIC, and keep them turned off in BIOS. If you can't get
far enough to build the kernel that way, there are boot time
flags to do the job. I've been running problem-free for over a
year this way. I'm really hoping that in a few months this stuff
will get hammered out and folded into the mainline 2.6 kernel,
and about that time Gentoo moves off of 2.4. Then I'll reinstall
my aging RH8.0.
It's a lot better than it was. Originally there wasn't even GART
support, so the only 3D was nVidia. (not my ATI)
Dale Pontius<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Feb 09, 2004
Posts: 4
|
(Msg. 13) Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
I did boot the system with acpi=off and noapic. Mandrake = no go. Whitebox = go! This is the first time I
use Whitebox, and so far it looks a lot like RedHat (not surprised). Too bad for mandrake, I liked that
distro a lot.
Everybody thanks a lot for thinking along!
Cheers,
Chris >> Stay informed about: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Feb 12, 2004
Posts: 56
|
(Msg. 14) Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:53 am
Post subject: Re: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
cleurs.TakeThisOut@wish.net <cleurs.TakeThisOut@wish.net> wrote :
>> Not sure. It might be that you need a kernel with the APIC
>> feature disabled? Now that APIC is disabled in your BIOS, does
>> dmesg show any reference to APIC?
>
> Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It sounds logical. But to my
> understanding, to recompile a kernel, one needs to have one first.
> That's where it already goes wrong. My linux system just froze
> instantly and now I start from the beginning again: how to install
> linux from an iso-CD without lock-ups during HDD partitioning
you can pass parameters to kernel like noacpi noapic (lilo)
> Am I the only one facing these problems? Or do linux users simply
> ignore nForce2 mainboards?
your the one with faulty hardware I guess
Pozdrawiam.
--
RusH //
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://kiti.pulse.pdi.net/qv30/" target="_blank">http://kiti.pulse.pdi.net/qv30/</a>
Like ninjas, true hackers are shrouded in secrecy and mystery.
You may never know -- UNTIL IT'S TOO LATE.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Feb 09, 2004
Posts: 4
|
(Msg. 15) Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:49 am
Post subject: Re: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 02:53:14 +0000 (UTC), RusH <rush RemoveThis @pulse.pdi.net> wrote:
> cleurs RemoveThis @wish.net <cleurs RemoveThis @wish.net> wrote :
>
> >> Not sure. It might be that you need a kernel with the APIC
> >> feature disabled? Now that APIC is disabled in your BIOS, does
> >> dmesg show any reference to APIC?
> >
> > Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It sounds logical. But to my
> > understanding, to recompile a kernel, one needs to have one first.
> > That's where it already goes wrong. My linux system just froze
> > instantly and now I start from the beginning again: how to install
> > linux from an iso-CD without lock-ups during HDD partitioning
>
> you can pass parameters to kernel like noacpi noapic (lilo)
I did so. Mandrake still didn't install, In the end I gave up Mandrake and
downloaded Whitebox (RedHat rip off) iso files, and installed these succesfully.
> > Am I the only one facing these problems? Or do linux users simply
> > ignore nForce2 mainboards?
>
> your the one with faulty hardware I guess
>
Apparently, but I was just wondering if it was a linux and nForce2 thing in general,
since nForce and Windows work just fine (I also executed memory tests as
suggested, no problems there). My conclusion is that despite the same linux kernel
used, there are more differences between several distributions than I thought. I
might give Gentoo a chance today, see how that behaves.
Regards,
Chris<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Advice asked: linux / nForce2 problems |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
| Related Topics: | New Linux website - www.linuxelectrons.com
Microsoft Linux - I personally think the following story is a "boojum" (thanks to this newsgroup, my vocabulary has increased), but whatever it's been posted do with it as you will. :-) http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=75&e=2&u=/nf/20...
Tablet PCs done in Linux and VIA - With Microsoft targeting this market as one of its strategic future growth areas, this must not come as good news that Linux is also being positioned there. And that VIA processor probably doesn't have the horsepower to run the WinXP properly either. ...
Linux as an office desktop - Here's an article from two years ago: http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/08/10/1441239 Notice that they are talking about secretaries running KDE and not caring. One secretary is already more familiar with it than she is with Windows at home. ....
Linux, AMD64, and 3D console games - The following story contains some very tantalizing combinations of things that have never been associated with each other before: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/developer/0,39020387,39116947,00.htm It's a demo of the shoot'em'up game America's Army,.... |
|
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Profile
Private Messages
Log in
