Advice on building my own computer

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 20:15:55 -0500, "Andy in NJ" <SHORECOGS
at COMCAST DOT NET> wrote:

 >"kony" <spam RemoveThis @spam.com> wrote in message
 >news:45v7u09hqagehonoh19b7ri03dfeqfn25s@4ax.com...
  >> Andy, the odds are MUCH higher that you're going to get
  >> negative replies when you crosspost. Try picking a group or
  >> two and sticking with it for a while. Web-oriented forums
  >> are a good way to find details of particular boards, you
  >> might try those as well.
 >
 >Then again, if I post once on each of the newsgroups, I will have to check
 >each and every one of those newsgroups for replies. Crossposting allows
 >people that read each of those newsgroups to reply, since not everyone reads
 >every one of those newsgroups. My topic is broad enough to cover each
 >newsgroup that I crossposted to.
 >

Your topic is broad enough that you should've been a bit
less lazy, doing the legwork like everyone else. Instead,
your post has been answered sufficiently but it seems you
haven't built the system, just wasted the resources of the
groups posted to. Newsgroups work because everyone doesn't
post "hey gang be my personal shopper for
nothing-in-particular" threads. Get on with it, you're
wasting your own time, too.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Dee wrote:
 > Andy in NJ wrote:
  >> "kony" <spam.DeleteThis@spam.com> wrote in message
  >>
   >>> Andy, the odds are MUCH higher that you're going to get
   >>> negative replies when you crosspost. Try picking a group or
   >>> two and sticking with it for a while. Web-oriented forums
   >>> are a good way to find details of particular boards, you
   >>> might try those as well.
  >>
  >> Then again, if I post once on each of the newsgroups, I will have
  >> to check each and every one of those newsgroups for replies.
  >> Crossposting allows people that read each of those newsgroups to
  >> reply, since not everyone reads every one of those newsgroups. My
  >> topic is broad enough to cover each newsgroup that I crossposted
  >> to.
  >>
 > The point you're missing is that it is not proper etiquette to
 > cross-post! Post to one group at a time and only one group only!
 >
 > Don't post to a whole bunch of groups at the same time!!!

He can cross post to a reasonable selection, provided he sets
follow-ups to a single group immediately, i.e. on the initial
posting. That way he gets a response from a wider group (which I
presume to be the objective) and limits discussion to a single
group. Once a thread is widely cross-posted it tends to fill up
with kooks and various OT nonsense, and to become an interminable
nuisance.

--
Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net> USE worldnet address!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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kony wrote:
 >On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 20:15:55 -0500, "Andy in NJ" <SHORECOGS
 >at COMCAST DOT NET> wrote:

  >>"kony" <spam.DeleteThis@spam.com> wrote in message
  >>news:45v7u09hqagehonoh19b7ri03dfeqfn25s@4ax.com...
   >>> Andy, the odds are MUCH higher that you're going to get
   >>> negative replies when you crosspost. Try picking a group or
   >>> two and sticking with it for a while.

I agree with this...

  >>Then again, if I post once on each of the newsgroups, I will
  >>have to check each and every one of those newsgroups for replies.

This isn't a problem if you only post to one or two groups.

  >>Crossposting allows people that read each of those newsgroups
  >>to reply, since not everyone reads every one of those newsgroups.

This is actually a problem when you crosspost to more than,
say, 2 newsgroups. For whatever reasons, the chances of
starting a silly argument goes way up when you crosspost.
Perhaps it's because people who normally wouldn't be reading
each other's opinionated posts do so. Within a newsgroup,
a particular argument might have been hashed over many times
already.

  >>My topic is broad enough to cover each
  >>newsgroup that I crossposted to.

You would have done much better to only post to homebuilt
and pc-homebuilt.

home-designed is naturally going to look down upon you for
not going with a "real" custom system.

alt.comp.hardware is too broad--you don't post to a broad
group if a subgroup applies. Otherwise, EVERY post to a
subgroup would be crossposted to the broader parent group.
Does that make any sense?

As it is, a.c.h.homebuilt and a.c.h.pc-homebuilt are basically
redundant and in a "non-alt" world would be just a single
newsgroup. However, the alt hierarchy is more of an anarchy
than a hierarchy, so...

 >Your topic is broad enough that you should've been a bit
 >less lazy, doing the legwork like everyone else. Instead,
 >your post has been answered sufficiently but it seems you
 >haven't built the system, just wasted the resources of the
 >groups posted to. Newsgroups work because everyone doesn't
 >post "hey gang be my personal shopper for
 >nothing-in-particular" threads.

I don't see anything wrong with "be my personal shopper"
threads, at least on homebuilt/pc-homebuilt. Computer
hardware prices change far too quickly for a search of
threads older than a couple weeks to be useful for finding
the best deals.

 >Get on with it, you're wasting your own time, too.

For most people, putting together a new computer is a
significant investment in money and/or time. It's
natural to want to do it right and not feel burned by
a hasty decision. Crazy as it might seem to you, it's
not insane to research a complex purchasing decision
for a few weeks, especially if a great deal might come
along in this time.

Just looking at Fry's Outpost alone, their mobo/cpu combos
change prices on a weekly basis--in both directions.

Isaac Kuo<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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kony:

 > Newsgroups work because everyone doesn't post "hey gang be my
 > personal shopper for nothing-in-particular" threads.

Wait, I thought we were reading the same newsgroups... maybe not.


--
Mac Cool<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Advice on building my own computer 

On 13 Jan 2005 08:06:11 -0800, "IsaacKuo"
<mechdan RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:


  >>Your topic is broad enough that you should've been a bit
  >>less lazy, doing the legwork like everyone else. Instead,
  >>your post has been answered sufficiently but it seems you
  >>haven't built the system, just wasted the resources of the
  >>groups posted to. Newsgroups work because everyone doesn't
  >>post "hey gang be my personal shopper for
  >>nothing-in-particular" threads.
 >
 >I don't see anything wrong with "be my personal shopper"
 >threads, at least on homebuilt/pc-homebuilt. Computer
 >hardware prices change far too quickly for a search of
 >threads older than a couple weeks to be useful for finding
 >the best deals.

Consider that dozens of thousands of PCs are bought every
day. How many of those buyers DON'T want the best thing for
X amt. of $ ? The difference is generally that they do a
bit of research into their personal needs BEFORE looking for
specific advice, narrowing down the choices rather than at
the beginning of the whole process.


 >
  >>Get on with it, you're wasting your own time, too.
 >
 >For most people, putting together a new computer is a
 >significant investment in money and/or time. It's
 >natural to want to do it right and not feel burned by
 >a hasty decision. Crazy as it might seem to you, it's
 >not insane to research a complex purchasing decision
 >for a few weeks, especially if a great deal might come
 >along in this time.
 >
 >Just looking at Fry's Outpost alone, their mobo/cpu combos
 >change prices on a weekly basis--in both directions.


Yes, and again, where would it end? It's not at all crazy
to research, but that's exactly what the OP did not do,
instead... or at least no evidence of it, no details to
narrow the alternatives or anything like that except what
seems a budget where he's trying to get us to help him save
a couple bucks. In moderation, it's a reasonable thing.
When it involves occupying multiple newsgroups for a generic
question with no prior legwork, it's excessive, IMO.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Advice on building my own computer 

"kony" <spam.TakeThisOut@spam.com> wrote in message
news:0j5cu0l8avc7uinerph83caibuea1jdg8m@4ax.com...
 > Your topic is broad enough that you should've been a bit
 > less lazy, doing the legwork like everyone else. Instead,
 > your post has been answered sufficiently but it seems you
 > haven't built the system, just wasted the resources of the
 > groups posted to. Newsgroups work because everyone doesn't
 > post "hey gang be my personal shopper for
 > nothing-in-particular" threads. Get on with it, you're
 > wasting your own time, too.

So asking others for their opinions on a newsgroup isn't "legwork"? You're
right I haven't bought the system. Unlike you, I don't have all the free
time in the world to immediately run out and buy what I need. I will be
buying something soon, probably as a result of the helpful replies I
received.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Advice on building my own computer 

"CBFalconer" <cbfalconer DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41E617AA.5E85AAB2@yahoo.com...
 > Once a thread is widely cross-posted it tends to fill up
 > with kooks and various OT nonsense, and to become an interminable
 > nuisance.

And we wouldn't want that to happen. Can you imagine what would have
happened if I... *gasp* TOP POSTED!?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"IsaacKuo" <mechdan.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1105632371.503684.36880@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
   >>>Crossposting allows people that read each of those newsgroups
   >>>to reply, since not everyone reads every one of those newsgroups.
 >
 > This is actually a problem when you crosspost to more than,
 > say, 2 newsgroups. For whatever reasons, the chances of
 > starting a silly argument goes way up when you crosspost.
 > Perhaps it's because people who normally wouldn't be reading
 > each other's opinionated posts do so. Within a newsgroup,
 > a particular argument might have been hashed over many times
 > already.

No to mention that I am gaining the attention of the recent graduates of the
Internet Newsgroup Police Academy. <!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Advice on building my own computer 

"kony" <spam RemoveThis @spam.com> wrote in message
news:plfdu0lsut6ke0ug6n6t3dqrapf3ffs22o@4ax.com...
 > Consider that dozens of thousands of PCs are bought every
 > day. How many of those buyers DON'T want the best thing for
 > X amt. of $ ? The difference is generally that they do a
 > bit of research into their personal needs BEFORE looking for
 > specific advice, narrowing down the choices rather than at
 > the beginning of the whole process.

Hmm.. My "personal needs" are the fastest, most reliable combination of
parts that I mentioned. It's not a hard task, but some people want to read
into it, trying to complicate things. Is a Pentium running at 2 gigs faster
then an AMD running at 3 gigs? If it is, that's what I want. Since I'm not
up on the latest technology, I've asked in these newsgroups, where have
received many helpful replies, and probably just as many NetCops bitching
about my posting. Hey, that's what you get. That's the internet.

 > When it involves occupying multiple newsgroups for a generic
 > question with no prior legwork, it's excessive, IMO.

You got this one, folks? The NetCops new law states: "At no point shall
asking for help on newsgroups that are appropriate to said topic be deemed
'legwork'. 'Legwork' shall be restricted soley to Google, Yahoo, Ebay, and a
visit to the local computer store and must be accomplished solely by the
potential consumer with no help from other person(s) unless said person
shall be deemed an 'employee' of a computer store."

Connection Terminated. BEEEEEEP.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Advice on building my own computer 

are the fastest, most reliable combination of
parts that I mentioned. \\


you haven't the cash


Is a Pentium running at 2 gigs faster
 > then an AMD running at 3 gigs? If it is, that's what I want

ridiculous reason to purchase ..just about.. anything, short of a
racing vehicle.


"Andy in NJ" <SHORECOGS at COMCAST DOT NET> wrote in message
news:6O6dnSJPSvUumnTcRVn-ig@comcast.com...
 > "kony" <spam.TakeThisOut@spam.com> wrote in message
 > news:plfdu0lsut6ke0ug6n6t3dqrapf3ffs22o@4ax.com...
  > > Consider that dozens of thousands of PCs are bought every
  > > day. How many of those buyers DON'T want the best thing for
  > > X amt. of $ ? The difference is generally that they do a
  > > bit of research into their personal needs BEFORE looking for
  > > specific advice, narrowing down the choices rather than at
  > > the beginning of the whole process.
 >
 > Hmm.. My "personal needs" are the fastest, most reliable combination
of
 > parts that I mentioned. It's not a hard task, but some people want
to read
 > into it, trying to complicate things. . Since I'm not
 > up on the latest technology, I've asked in these newsgroups, where
have
 > received many helpful replies, and probably just as many NetCops
bitching
 > about my posting. Hey, that's what you get. That's the internet.
 >
  > > When it involves occupying multiple newsgroups for a generic
  > > question with no prior legwork, it's excessive, IMO.
 >
 > You got this one, folks? The NetCops new law states: "At no point
shall
 > asking for help on newsgroups that are appropriate to said topic be
deemed
 > 'legwork'. 'Legwork' shall be restricted soley to Google, Yahoo,
Ebay, and a
 > visit to the local computer store and must be accomplished solely by
the
 > potential consumer with no help from other person(s) unless said
person
 > shall be deemed an 'employee' of a computer store."
 >
 > Connection Terminated. BEEEEEEP.
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Advice on building my own computer 

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 07:07:50 -0500, "Andy in NJ" <SHORECOGS
at COMCAST DOT NET> wrote:

 >"kony" <spam.DeleteThis@spam.com> wrote in message
 >news:plfdu0lsut6ke0ug6n6t3dqrapf3ffs22o@4ax.com...
  >> Consider that dozens of thousands of PCs are bought every
  >> day. How many of those buyers DON'T want the best thing for
  >> X amt. of $ ? The difference is generally that they do a
  >> bit of research into their personal needs BEFORE looking for
  >> specific advice, narrowing down the choices rather than at
  >> the beginning of the whole process.
 >
 >Hmm.. My "personal needs" are the fastest, most reliable combination of
 >parts that I mentioned. It's not a hard task,

Exactly. It's as common as dirt, what everyone, everywhere,
always wants. If everyone, everywhere, always posted such
threads, the servers couldn't even retain them all, the
signal to noise ratio would be low and usenet's usefulness
would be wasted.

 >but some people want to read
 >into it, trying to complicate things.

Yes/no/maybe?

Simple request, only more complicted due to reuse of parts
that are limitors, like the AGP video.


 >Is a Pentium running at 2 gigs faster
 >then an AMD running at 3 gigs?

No, but you meant Pentium at 3 GHz & AMD @ 2 GHz, right?
Again, an example of things you should research first
instead of asking here. We can give you an average, and it
is not going to indicate what YOU need for your most
demanding tasks. Any 1GHz CPU is sufficient for office,
email, 'surfing... it's the more demanding jobs that may
vary per architecture and optimizations between the two
CPUs, regardless of which is faster "on average" because
it's exactly that, an average.

Translation - Seek benchmarks for your particular use, the
application AND specific version of that application. For
example, if you're using Photoshop 4, it does little good to
see what performs better at Photoshop 7. In many cases the
P4's performance is lower unless one buys newer software
too, but it's a viable solution when one does need max.
performance from specific tasks.

We can try to help, but this broad expanse of info will not
be able to cover all bases... we can't know how you
personally want to limit and choose. Truthfully any modern
CPU you choose will be more than sufficient for common uses.
Most people are as impacted by whether their system has good
keyboard or firewire for an external drive use, as whether
it has AMD or Intel CPU in it.


 >If it is, that's what I want. Since I'm not
 >up on the latest technology, I've asked in these newsgroups, where have
 >received many helpful replies, and probably just as many NetCops bitching
 >about my posting. Hey, that's what you get. That's the internet.

Usenet "works" because there are certain guidelines.
Whether you realize it or not, you benefit from them too.
Had everyone who bought a new upgrade "yesterday", posted
same messages, the odds are quite low that your thread
would've received as much attention as it did.

 >
  >> When it involves occupying multiple newsgroups for a generic
  >> question with no prior legwork, it's excessive, IMO.
 >
 >You got this one, folks? The NetCops new law states: "At no point shall
 >asking for help on newsgroups that are appropriate to said topic be deemed
 >'legwork'. 'Legwork' shall be restricted soley to Google, Yahoo, Ebay, and a
 >visit to the local computer store and must be accomplished solely by the
 >potential consumer with no help from other person(s) unless said person
 >shall be deemed an 'employee' of a computer store."
 >
 >Connection Terminated. BEEEEEEP.


Sadly you just don't get it.
We try to help someone and all they can do is get
self-righteous. Recognize that you are NOT the only person
on usenet, your problems are not the only concern of OTHERS.
If you want others to extend you some consideration, do
likewise. Again, if everyone posted such generic requests
without bothering to do their homework, the group as a whole
would suffer.

Suppose you buy these parts and have a problem of some sort.
If everyone's occupied addressing more
generic-purchase-requests, your next/new problem will not
receive as much attention. Certainly some posters already
do not get their problems solved even though "someone" out
there knows the answer, but didn't read every single post.
Obviously you haven't dealt with the more minute details of
computer hardware before else you'd have been able to answer
your own post, and once (if) you become more experienced in
these details, you may then better understand the allocation
of usenet resources to "news" and issues, rather than
shopping guides.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 06:56:57 -0500, "Andy in NJ" <SHORECOGS
at COMCAST DOT NET> wrote:

 >"kony" <spam.RemoveThis@spam.com> wrote in message
 >news:0j5cu0l8avc7uinerph83caibuea1jdg8m@4ax.com...
  >> Your topic is broad enough that you should've been a bit
  >> less lazy, doing the legwork like everyone else. Instead,
  >> your post has been answered sufficiently but it seems you
  >> haven't built the system, just wasted the resources of the
  >> groups posted to. Newsgroups work because everyone doesn't
  >> post "hey gang be my personal shopper for
  >> nothing-in-particular" threads. Get on with it, you're
  >> wasting your own time, too.
 >
 >So asking others for their opinions on a newsgroup isn't "legwork"? You're
 >right I haven't bought the system. Unlike you, I don't have all the free
 >time in the world to immediately run out and buy what I need. I will be
 >buying something soon, probably as a result of the helpful replies I
 >received.
 >

Opinions on what?
How to spend $500?
Understand that if all I wanted to do was insult you, I'd
have done a much better job of it. The "legwork" suggestion
benefits you as well as those who reply, and other OPs as
well.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Advice on building my own computer 

kony wrote:

 > On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 06:56:57 -0500, "Andy in NJ" <SHORECOGS
 > at COMCAST DOT NET> wrote:
 >
  > >"kony" <spam.RemoveThis@spam.com> wrote in message
  > >news:0j5cu0l8avc7uinerph83caibuea1jdg8m@4ax.com...
   > >> Your topic is broad enough that you should've been a bit
   > >> less lazy, doing the legwork like everyone else. Instead,
   > >> your post has been answered sufficiently but it seems you
   > >> haven't built the system, just wasted the resources of the
   > >> groups posted to. Newsgroups work because everyone doesn't
   > >> post "hey gang be my personal shopper for
   > >> nothing-in-particular" threads. Get on with it, you're
   > >> wasting your own time, too.
  > >
  > >So asking others for their opinions on a newsgroup isn't "legwork"? You're
  > >right I haven't bought the system. Unlike you, I don't have all the free
  > >time in the world to immediately run out and buy what I need. I will be
  > >buying something soon, probably as a result of the helpful replies I
  > >received.
  > >
 >
 > Opinions on what?
 > How to spend $500?
 > Understand that if all I wanted to do was insult you, I'd
 > have done a much better job of it. The "legwork" suggestion
 > benefits you as well as those who reply, and other OPs as
 > well.

So when someone cross posts, should the responder to likewise, or limit it to
the present group -- I suppose there are pros, cons either way.

Anyway, what this situation -- the, 'tell me what to buy,' thing, usually calls
for a reponse that limits options -- narrow down the solution space, or
something like. That's really what such posters want -- whether or not they
realize it. And what they further don't realize is they are asking not only
that you narrow their options, but also that you do so in a way that gives them
what they want . Which, requires mind reading.

So what to do? Just give them *your* version of what they should do with the
500.00, and leave at that prolly.

Bryan<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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