Bootable D: Drive

You can use the BIOS to select the drive to boot by putting
that drive at the head of the BIOS's HD boot order, or you
can make the system a multi-boot by simply adding an
entry to the boot.ini file of what is now at the head of the
HD boot order by default - the Master drive.

Your boot.ini file (at C:\boot.ini) currently looks something
like this:

[boot loader]
timeout=0
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="this is your
name for the system on the Master drive" /fastdetect

Now, using Notepad, simply change the timeout to some
reasonable no. of seconds to give yourself time to put down
your coffee and select the OS:

timeout=15

Then, assuming that the clone is on the 1st partition on the 2nd
HD, by default the Slave on the channel 0 cable, add this entry
after the last entry:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="this is your name
for the clone system on the Slave drive" /fastdetect

Here, "rdisk(1)" designates the 2nd HD in the BIOS's HD boot
order, and "partition(1)" designates the 1st partition on that HD.

Your new boot.ini file will look like:

[boot loader]
timeout=15
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="this is your name for the system on the Master drive" /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="this is your name for clone system on the Slave drive" /fastdetect

At boot time, ntldr, will display your two choices, and by
positioning highlighted selection with the Up and Down arrows,
you can hit Enter to select which OS boots. When the clone
boots, it will call itself C: and the other drive D:. Both will be
visible in My Computer, and you can drag 'n drop files between
the 2 partitions, called "Local Disks" by My Computer.

*TimDaniels*

"Dave C." wrote:
> The C: drive is my master and my D: is slave on the same cable.
> The D: drive is a clone of C: (XXClone) and have previously check
> it out by removing the original C: and booting from the clone.
>
> My question is with both the C: drive (master) and the D: clone
> drive (slave) in place, can I safely boot on the D: drive via bios
> select while leaving the C: drive in the master position and the
> D: in the slave position? I have not tried this yet....concerned
> about maybe messing things up.
>
> The only reason to do this is to periodically check the bootability
> of the D: drive without having to disconnect cables, open the case,
> removing the C: drive, rebooting, then putting everything back to
> the way it was.
>
> --
> Dave C.
 >> Stay informed about: Bootable D: Drive 

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3tmt8nFsutljU1@individual.net...
> Dave C. <c9ar9dar9elli.RemoveThis@9c4.n9et> wrote
>
>> The C: drive is my master and my D: is slave on the same cable. The D:
>> drive is a clone of C: (XXClone) and have previously check it out by
>> removing the original C: and booting from the clone.
>
>> My question is with both the C: drive (master) and the D: clone drive
>> (slave) in place, can I safely boot on the D: drive via bios select while
>> leaving the C: drive in the master position and the D: in the slave
>> position?
>
> Should be fine.
>
>> I have not tried this yet....concerned about maybe messing things up.
>
> Safest to image the C drive first, but it should work fine.
>
>> The only reason to do this is to periodically check the bootability of
>> the D: drive without having to disconnect cables, open the case, removing
>> the C: drive, rebooting, then putting everything back to the way it was.
>
> Sure.
Thanks Rod, will give it a try shortly. By the way, the XXClone made a
flawless copy of my C: drive on to my second hard drive.

Regards, Dave
 >> Stay informed about: Bootable D: Drive 

Dave C. <c9ar9dar9elli.RemoveThis@9c4.n9et> wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod_speed.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3tmt8nFsutljU1@individual.net...
>> Dave C. <c9ar9dar9elli.RemoveThis@9c4.n9et> wrote
>>
>>> The C: drive is my master and my D: is slave on the same cable. The D: drive
>>> is a clone of C: (XXClone) and have previously check
>>> it out by removing the original C: and booting from the clone.
>>
>>> My question is with both the C: drive (master) and the D: clone
>>> drive (slave) in place, can I safely boot on the D: drive via bios
>>> select while leaving the C: drive in the master position and the D:
>>> in the slave position?
>>
>> Should be fine.
>>
>>> I have not tried this yet....concerned about maybe messing things
>>> up.
>>
>> Safest to image the C drive first, but it should work fine.
>>
>>> The only reason to do this is to periodically check the bootability
>>> of the D: drive without having to disconnect cables, open the case,
>>> removing the C: drive, rebooting, then putting everything back to
>>> the way it was.
>>
>> Sure.

> Thanks Rod, will give it a try shortly. By the way, the XXClone made a
> flawless copy of my C: drive on to my second hard drive.

What was the speed like ? That was the main downside I found with xxcopy,
it worked fine, but was quite slow compared with True Image etc.

Pretty crude user interface too.
 >> Stay informed about: Bootable D: Drive 

"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels.TakeThisOut@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message
news:Z8udnUsvXtc65-veRVn-sA@comcast.com...
> You can use the BIOS to select the drive to boot by putting
> that drive at the head of the BIOS's HD boot order, or you
> can make the system a multi-boot by simply adding an
> entry to the boot.ini file of what is now at the head of the
> HD boot order by default - the Master drive.
>
> Your boot.ini file (at C:\boot.ini) currently looks something
> like this:
>
> [boot loader]
> timeout=0
> default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
> [operating systems]
> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="this is your
> name for the system on the Master drive" /fastdetect
>
> Now, using Notepad, simply change the timeout to some
> reasonable no. of seconds to give yourself time to put down
> your coffee and select the OS:
>
> timeout=15
>
> Then, assuming that the clone is on the 1st partition on the 2nd
> HD, by default the Slave on the channel 0 cable, add this entry
> after the last entry:
>
> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="this is your name
> for the clone system on the Slave drive" /fastdetect
>
> Here, "rdisk(1)" designates the 2nd HD in the BIOS's HD boot
> order, and "partition(1)" designates the 1st partition on that HD.
>
> Your new boot.ini file will look like:
>
> [boot loader]
> timeout=15
> default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
> [operating systems]
> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="this is your name for the
> system on the Master drive" /fastdetect
> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="this is your name for clone
> system on the Slave drive" /fastdetect
>
> At boot time, ntldr, will display your two choices, and by
> positioning highlighted selection with the Up and Down arrows,
> you can hit Enter to select which OS boots. When the clone
> boots, it will call itself C: and the other drive D:. Both will be
> visible in My Computer, and you can drag 'n drop files between
> the 2 partitions, called "Local Disks" by My Computer.
>
> *TimDaniels*
>
Thanks, Tim, that was going to be my next question as to how to set up the
boot.ini for a dual boot.

Regards, Dave
 >> Stay informed about: Bootable D: Drive 

I appreciate all the helpful posts. Thanks.

Regards,

--
Dave C.

c9ar9dar9elli.TakeThisOut@9c4.n9et

Remove the five 9's (leave the 4) for email.
 >> Stay informed about: Bootable D: Drive 

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3tpi3mFtubvbU1@individual.net...
> Dave C. <c9ar9dar9elli RemoveThis @9c4.n9et> wrote
>
>> Thanks Rod, will give it a try shortly. By the way, the XXClone
>> made a flawless copy of my C: drive on to my second hard drive.
>
> What was the speed like ? That was the main downside I found with
> xxcopy, it worked fine, but was quite slow compared with True Image etc.
>

>> Using XXClone, process of cloning my C: drive to the D: drive took about
>> a couple of hours.
>
Rod, thinking back, I am sure that the cloning process took probably 4
hours, not a couple as I first reported. I didn't track the time
specifically, but I did it one day in the afternoon.

The freeware version I used does not have the differential copy feature as
does the purchased version. I plan to buy the full version for $40.

Dave
 >> Stay informed about: Bootable D: Drive 

Dave C. <c9ar9dar9elli.DeleteThis@9c4.n9et> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod_speed.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote
>> Dave C. <c9ar9dar9elli.DeleteThis@9c4.n9et> wrote

>>> Thanks Rod, will give it a try shortly. By the way, the XXClone
>>> made a flawless copy of my C: drive on to my second hard drive.

>> What was the speed like ? That was the main downside I found with
>> xxcopy, it worked fine, but was quite slow compared with True Image etc.

>>> Using XXClone, process of cloning my C: drive to the D: drive took
>>> about a couple of hours.

> Rod, thinking back, I am sure that the cloning process took probably 4 hours,
> not a couple as I first reported.

Yeah, sounds plausible, I know xxcopy took ages and
that was with much smaller drives than I clone today.

> I didn't track the time specifically, but I did it one day in the afternoon.

> The freeware version I used does not have the differential copy feature as
> does the purchased version.

That differential copy feature certainly has some real advantages.

The time to do a full clone may not matter much, you dont do it that often.

> I plan to buy the full version for $40.

I'd use TI myself, similar price and it does a lot more.
 >> Stay informed about: Bootable D: Drive 

En news:Z8udnUsvXtc65-veRVn-sA@comcast.com, Timothy Daniels va escriure:
> Your new boot.ini file will look like:
>
> [boot loader]
> timeout=15
> default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
> [operating systems]
> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="this is your name for
> the system on the Master drive" /fastdetect
> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="this is your name for
> clone system on the Slave drive" /fastdetect
>
> At boot time, ntldr, will display your two choices, and by
> positioning highlighted selection with the Up and Down arrows,
> you can hit Enter to select which OS boots. When the clone
> boots, it will call itself C: and the other drive D:.

Did you tried it successfully?

Last time I tried (with a slightly different letter scheme), the registry in
the 120GB disk (loaded along with NTLDR) had C: pointing at the 80GB disk
(because of the signatures in the MBRs), so I end up with C: being the old
disk exactly as if I booted from it, the only difference was that I loaded
the OS from a different place.

Then I gave it another try, booting the same way just after doing a complete
clone (including the MBR and the signatures) to the 120GB disk. This time
the kernel from the 120GB booted using itself (with the "shared" signature),
recognized the two disks had the same signatures so it silently changed the
signature on the 80 GB to a brand new random one.
Next time I attempted to boot on the normal 80GB, the normal registry get
the hand, recognized the signature for C: as being the one of the 120GB
(hope you are following me), so was using the 120GB as C: disk!
The worst problem is that I did not notice it immediately, but only when I
unplugged the 120GB disk... nothing worked at all (since the 80GB were given
the D: letter upon the second reboot; I wouldn't have done it, it would have
worked ).


Antoine
 >> Stay informed about: Bootable D: Drive 

"Antoine Leca" wrote:
> Timothy Daniels va escriure:
>> Your new boot.ini file will look like:
>>
>> [boot loader]
>> timeout=15
>> default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
>> [operating systems]
>> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="this is your name for
>> the system on the Master drive" /fastdetect
>> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="this is your name for
>> clone system on the Slave drive" /fastdetect
>>
>> At boot time, ntldr, will display your two choices, and by
>> positioning highlighted selection with the Up and Down arrows,
>> you can hit Enter to select which OS boots. When the clone
>> boots, it will call itself C: and the other drive D:.
>
> Did you tried it successfully?


Yes, I do it at each backup. I typically even do it with more than
4 or more clones plus the booting OS all visible to each other and
bootable according to the entries that I place in the boot.ini file of
each one.

Your description is confusing. Remember that when you have a
clone, everything in it looks exactly like the "parent" OS. I suspect
that when the clone was running, you thought it was the "parent" OS.
And you also mention nothing about possible other partitions and
whether you paid any attention to which one was marked "active".


> Last time I tried (with a slightly different letter scheme), the registry in
> the 120GB disk (loaded along with NTLDR) had C: pointing at the 80GB disk
> (because of the signatures in the MBRs), so I end up with C: being the old
> disk exactly as if I booted from it, the only difference was that I loaded
> the OS from a different place.
>
> Then I gave it another try, booting the same way just after doing a complete
> clone (including the MBR and the signatures) to the 120GB disk. This time
> the kernel from the 120GB booted using itself (with the "shared" signature),
> recognized the two disks had the same signatures so it silently changed the
> signature on the 80 GB to a brand new random one.
> Next time I attempted to boot on the normal 80GB, the normal registry get
> the hand, recognized the signature for C: as being the one of the 120GB
> (hope you are following me), so was using the 120GB as C: disk!
> The worst problem is that I did not notice it immediately, but only when I
> unplugged the 120GB disk... nothing worked at all (since the 80GB were given
> the D: letter upon the second reboot; I wouldn't have done it, it would have
> worked ).
>
>
> Antoine
>

*TimDaniels*
 >> Stay informed about: Bootable D: Drive 

En news:j9GdnR70fulywh7eRVn-qA@comcast.com, Timothy Daniels va escriure:
> Yes, I do it at each backup. I typically even do it with more
> than 4 or more clones plus the booting OS all visible to each other
> and bootable according to the entries that I place in the boot.ini
> file of each one.
>
> Your description is confusing.

Sorry if I confused you.

I was reading "cloning a disk" as doing a sector-by-sector copy of the whole
disk surface, from LBA 0 (the MBR) to the last one.

Since you are talking about "more than 4 clones", you obviously are not
talking about cloning disks but rather "volumes" (or "partitions" or "file
systems" or "letters"; hope you get the idea.)


> Remember that when you have a clone, everything in it looks exactly
> like the "parent" OS.

Yes. Particularly (in Windows NT) a pointer in the registry (HKLM\System,
\DISK or \MountedDevices) which contains the mapping of the "letters"; this
mapping is done by the signature of the physical disk (bytes 1B8 to 1BB in
the MBR) along with the starting offset for the mounted file system
(starting at byte 0 in LBA 0).

So every different clone will assign C: to the same physical file system on
disk,
_unless_ the said file system has been made invisible to Windows before
booting (which is the case if you disconnect the original disk and install
the newly cloned one in place),
_or_ either if the cloning utility has slightly edited the registry (the
same way it already changes the HiddenSectors count in the boot record.)


The funny part is that Windows does not seem to check whether the indication
in BOOT.INI of the kernel to boot (the ARCpath, multi() etc.) actually
matches its view of the kernel once booted (i.e.
%SystemRoot%\system32\ntoskrnl.exe): it only complains (loudly, STOP 0x7B,
BSoD) if it is not able to _find_ the latter while booted.

Behaviours might evolve between versions at this level, my tests were with
W2K, YMMV with XP.


> I suspect
> that when the clone was running, you thought it was the "parent" OS.
> And you also mention nothing about possible other partitions and
> whether you paid any attention to which one was marked "active".

I do not believe that Windows NT pays any attention to the "active" markup
of the partitions, _except_ when it enumerates the volumes on a 'newly'
discovered (physical) disk (i.e., when using Mountmgr.sys.)

Of course, things are (were) widely different for DOS and Windows 9x, and
also for the standard code in the MBR.


Antoine
 >> Stay informed about: Bootable D: Drive 

"Antoine Leca" wrote:
> Timothy Daniels va escriure:
>> Yes, I do it at each backup. I typically even do it with more
>> than 4 or more clones plus the booting OS all visible to each other
>> and bootable according to the entries that I place in the boot.ini
>> file of each one.
>>
>> Your description is confusing.
>
> Sorry if I confused you.
>
> I was reading "cloning a disk" as doing a sector-by-sector copy of the whole
> disk surface, from LBA 0 (the MBR) to the last one.
>
> Since you are talking about "more than 4 clones", you obviously are not
> talking about cloning disks but rather "volumes" (or "partitions" or "file
> systems" or "letters"; hope you get the idea.)


Terminology can be inconsistent in fast-moving technologies.
For me, "cloning a disk" means cloning a Local Disk, i.e. a
partition. "Cloning a hard drive" would mean the entire platter
contents, but I may be in the minority. In the utilities that I've
used, the boot sector and the MBR are included either by
default or as options in the cloning.



>> Remember that when you have a clone, everything in it looks exactly
>> like the "parent" OS.
>
> Yes. Particularly (in Windows NT) a pointer in the registry (HKLM\System,
> \DISK or \MountedDevices) which contains the mapping of the "letters"; this
> mapping is done by the signature of the physical disk (bytes 1B8 to 1BB in
> the MBR) along with the starting offset for the mounted file system
> (starting at byte 0 in LBA 0).
>
> So every different clone will assign C: to the same physical file system on
> disk, _unless_ the said file system has been made invisible to Windows
>before booting (which is the case if you disconnect the original disk and
> install the newly cloned one in place), _or_ either if the cloning utility has
> slightly edited the registry (the same way it already changes the
> HiddenSectors count in the boot record.)
>
>
> The funny part is that Windows does not seem to check whether the
> indication in BOOT.INI of the kernel to boot (the ARCpath, multi() etc.)
> actually matches its view of the kernel once booted (i.e.
> %SystemRoot%\system32\ntoskrnl.exe): it only complains (loudly,
> STOP 0x7B, BSoD) if it is not able to _find_ the latter while booted.
>
> Behaviours might evolve between versions at this level, my tests were
> with W2K, YMMV with XP.
>
>
>> I suspect
>> that when the clone was running, you thought it was the "parent" OS.
>> And you also mention nothing about possible other partitions and
>> whether you paid any attention to which one was marked "active".
>
> I do not believe that Windows NT pays any attention to the "active"
> markup of the partitions, _except_ when it enumerates the volumes
> on a 'newly' discovered (physical) disk (i.e., when using Mountmgr.sys.)


Correct. My comment pertained to the difficulty in easily knowing
which partition had been the system partition, i.e. the partition with
boot.ini, ntldr, and ntdetect.com . That partition is designated by
the "active" flag - which is recognized by the MBR and it marks which
partition the MBR should pass control to. If all partitions had those
boot files which could load an OS from a partition designated in their
bootlini files, the "active" flag would play a big part in determining
which clone got loaded. So the user has to know the HD boot order,
which partition is "active", and the contents of the boot.ini file to know
which clone gets started up. Sometimes you can think a particular
clone is running when, in fact, a different one is running. For that
reason, I put a folder on the desktop of each clone having a folder
name which uniquely identifies it. I use the creation date and time
for that. I also put partition nos. in the text string associated with
each entry in the boot.ini file so that I can see on the screen which
partition I'll be booting. This can involve editing the boot.ini file in
each new clone, and it can easily be overlooked.

*TimDaniels*

> Of course, things are (were) widely different for DOS and Windows 9x,
> and also for the standard code in the MBR.
>
>
> Antoine
>
 >> Stay informed about: Bootable D: Drive 

"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels RemoveThis @NoSpamDot.com> wrote in
news:0POdnQZcEfpAVxnenZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@comcast.com:

> Terminology can be inconsistent in fast-moving technologies.
> For me, "cloning a disk" means cloning a Local Disk, i.e. a
> partition. "Cloning a hard drive" would mean the entire platter
> contents, but I may be in the minority. In the utilities that
> I've used, the boot sector and the MBR are included either by
> default or as options in the cloning.
>

{stuff deleted}

> Correct. My comment pertained to the difficulty in easily knowing
> which partition had been the system partition, i.e. the partition
> with boot.ini, ntldr, and ntdetect.com . That partition is
> designated by the "active" flag - which is recognized by the MBR
> and it marks which partition the MBR should pass control to. If
> all partitions had those boot files which could load an OS from a
> partition designated in their bootlini files, the "active" flag
> would play a big part in determining which clone got loaded. So
> the user has to know the HD boot order, which partition is
> "active", and the contents of the boot.ini file to know which
> clone gets started up. Sometimes you can think a particular
> clone is running when, in fact, a different one is running. For
> that reason, I put a folder on the desktop of each clone having a
> folder name which uniquely identifies it. I use the creation date
> and time for that. I also put partition nos. in the text string
> associated with each entry in the boot.ini file so that I can see
> on the screen which partition I'll be booting. This can involve
> editing the boot.ini file in each new clone, and it can easily be
> overlooked.
>
> *TimDaniels*
>


Tim,

Do your boot.ini recommends apply when a disk unkowingly contains two
"partitions" or "volumes"? For example when the first is a system/boot
partitions/volumes and the other is a hidden "recovery" partition/volume
(i.e. factory hard drive setup on HP Pavilion PC's).

The HP hidden partition includes the Windows XP setup CD image, system
recovery tools, device drivers and all the install archives for the
applications bundled with the system.

I could be wrong here but I'm concerned that end-users will mistakenly
forget about this hidden 'recovery' partitions while imaging/cloning a
"disk", when following your method.

Yes cloning a "partition" is best used term. Not the same as cloning a
"disk" or a "hard disk", which the majority would refer to as the same as
cloning a hard drive.

Now if we can get everyone to agree on use of "partition" and "volume". A
partition can exist over more than one volume.

Woody
 >> Stay informed about: Bootable D: Drive 

Timothy Daniels wrote:

> Sometimes you can think a particular clone is running when, in fact, a
> different one is running. For that reason, I put a folder on the
> desktop of each clone having a folder name which uniquely identifies it.

AFAIK, the disk management applet shows which partition is the boot
partition (i.e. the one where ntldr processed the boot.ini file) and which
partition is the system partition (i.e. the one that contains the currently
running Windows installation).

Gerhard
 >> Stay informed about: Bootable D: Drive