Is T-Bred B faster and cooler than T-Bred A?

It certainly sounds better for marketing purposes.
Chnaces are that clock rates and stuff like that stay the same, but some of
the more complex instructions microcode has been fine-tuned to manage the
same job in less clock cycles.
Remember, the marketing term 'much faster' might mean as much as 1% under
typical or average usage and 'cooler' probably just means a degree or two.
Nothing to get excited about unless you are in the business of selling them.
Kevin.

Piotr Makley <pmakley DeleteThis @mail.com> wrote:
| This page http://www.motherboardfaqs.com/article.php?17.255 says:
|
| "The Thoroughbred "B" is simply a revised version of the
| A core, with one major kick - speed! These chips feature
| the usual optimizations on an instruction level, and
| major modifications in the actual physical manufacturing
| process."
|
| From this I guess that a Thoroughbred-B running at, let's say, 1600
| MHz is faster than the older Thoroughbred-A running at the same
| 1600 MHz.
|
| But AMD rates both these processors as having the same "Intel-
| equivalent" performance of 1900+. It's the same for other models
| of T-Bred A and B.
|
| I thought Throughbred B's are faster and cooler than the equivalent
| Thoroughbred A's? Can someone please explain.
 >> Stay informed about: Is T-Bred B faster and cooler than T-Bred A? 

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:10:58 +0000, Piotr Makley wrote:

 > This page <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.motherboardfaqs.com/article.php?17.255" target="_blank">http://www.motherboardfaqs.com/article.php?17.255</a> says:
 >
 > "The Thoroughbred "B" is simply a revised version of the
 > A core, with one major kick - speed! These chips feature
 > the usual optimizations on an instruction level, and
 > major modifications in the actual physical manufacturing
 > process."
 >
 > From this I guess that a Thoroughbred-B running at, let's say, 1600
 > MHz is faster than the older Thoroughbred-A running at the same
 > 1600 MHz.
 >
 > But AMD rates both these processors as having the same "Intel-
 > equivalent" performance of 1900+. It's the same for other models
 > of T-Bred A and B.
 >
 > I thought Throughbred B's are faster and cooler than the equivalent
 > Thoroughbred A's? Can someone please explain.

The original Tbred A core was crap. Speed wise just slightly better than
the Palomino core. The redesign added 2 more layers to the core, so to say
it's simply a revised version is putting it mildly. The new B core runs a
lot cooler and will clock a lot higher than the original Tbred core, given
an A designation after the fact. AMD maxed out the A core with the 2200+
at 1800MHz. The B core was maxed out with the 2800+ at 2250MHz. Both will
normally run faster than that with the A core at about 1900MHz and the B
core at around 2400MHz, although some have had A cores to 2000Mhz and some
have had B cores over 2600MHz.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm" target="_blank">http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is T-Bred B faster and cooler than T-Bred A? 

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:10:58 GMT, Piotr Makley <pmakley DeleteThis @mail.com> wrote:

 >This page <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.motherboardfaqs.com/article.php?17.255" target="_blank">http://www.motherboardfaqs.com/article.php?17.255</a> says:
 >
 > "The Thoroughbred "B" is simply a revised version of the
 > A core, with one major kick - speed! These chips feature
 > the usual optimizations on an instruction level, and
 > major modifications in the actual physical manufacturing
 > process."
 >
 >From this I guess that a Thoroughbred-B running at, let's say, 1600
 >MHz is faster than the older Thoroughbred-A running at the same
 >1600 MHz.

No. The major modification, IIRC, was an extra layer or two in the core.
The performance should be identical unless they tweaked cache timings but
AFAIK, they didn't. "Usual optimizations on an instruction level" simply
means that they are same as the T'Bred A in that regard.


 >But AMD rates both these processors as having the same "Intel-
 >equivalent" performance of 1900+. It's the same for other models
 >of T-Bred A and B.
 >
 >I thought Throughbred B's are faster and cooler than the equivalent
 >Thoroughbred A's? Can someone please explain.

It may be that they waste less heat due to restructued core design layers,
and I believe they are capable of running at same MHz speed at lower vCore
(but you "might" have to manually set the vCore to a different value to
even benefit from this small difference instead of running at stock
voltage.).

There is one main issue significant to the end-user. T'Bred B can scale
to higher MHz. That means it'll overclock higher, and that AMD needed the
redesign to take the chips to spec'd speeds beyond roughly 1.8GHz.

However, today you'd want neither, a further core revision was Thorton and
I'm not sure what was changed on those (beyond multiplier and visual
surface trace differences) but they again can run at even higher speed and
lower vCore per MHz.

To recap, if you're not overclocking, just wanting to plug the chip into
the socket and use it, will make no significant difference if it's a
T'Bred A, B, or Thorton except that if the motherboard bios doens't
recognize the model number it might misreport the CPU's AMD "name" or list
it's MHz instead of "XPnnn" name.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is T-Bred B faster and cooler than T-Bred A? 

Wes Newell <w.newell.RemoveThis@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote:

 > On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:10:58 +0000, Piotr Makley wrote:
 >
<font color=green>  >> This page <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.motherboardfaqs.com/article.php?17.255</font" target="_blank">http://www.motherboardfaqs.com/article.php?17.255</font</a>>
  >> says:
  >>
  >> "The Thoroughbred "B" is simply a revised version of the
  >> A core, with one major kick - speed! These chips feature
  >> the usual optimizations on an instruction level, and
  >> major modifications in the actual physical manufacturing
  >> process."
  >>
  >> From this I guess that a Thoroughbred-B running at, let's
  >> say, 1600 MHz is faster than the older Thoroughbred-A running
  >> at the same 1600 MHz.
  >>
  >> But AMD rates both these processors as having the same
  >> "Intel- equivalent" performance of 1900+. It's the same for
  >> other models of T-Bred A and B.
  >>
  >> I thought Throughbred B's are faster and cooler than the
  >> equivalent Thoroughbred A's? Can someone please explain.
 >
 >
 > The original Tbred A core was crap. Speed wise just slightly
 > better than the Palomino core. The redesign added 2 more
 > layers to the core, so to say it's simply a revised version is
 > putting it mildly. The new B core runs a lot cooler and will
 > clock a lot higher than the original Tbred core, given an A
 > designation after the fact. AMD maxed out the A core with the
 > 2200+ at 1800MHz. The B core was maxed out with the 2800+ at
 > 2250MHz. Both will normally run faster than that with the A
 > core at about 1900MHz and the B core at around 2400MHz,
 > although some have had A cores to 2000Mhz and some have had B
 > cores over 2600MHz.


Thanks for the info, Kony.

I looked at the page below and saw that many A and B cpus had the
same processor speed and they were both "model 8".

How would you go about identifying whether you were being offered
an A or a B T-Bred by a seller? Is the CPUID of 680 or 681 on the
chip and is that the best way of telling which is which if you have
the physical chip?

What about telling if its an A or a B from an advert?

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ultimatehardware.net/prices.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ultimatehardware.net/prices.htm</a>
page cached at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://tinyurl.com/3fljv" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/3fljv</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is T-Bred B faster and cooler than T-Bred A? 

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:50:13 +0100, Piotr Makley <pmakley.DeleteThis@mail.com> wrote:


 >I looked at the page below and saw that many A and B cpus had the
 >same processor speed and they were both "model 8".
 >
 >How would you go about identifying whether you were being offered
 >an A or a B T-Bred by a seller? Is the CPUID of 680 or 681 on the
 >chip and is that the best way of telling which is which if you have
 >the physical chip?

You'd have to ask (if they even knew, they may not if a volume reseller or
just a CSR on the phone). Otherwise get the markings from the chip and
look it up with Google... there are a lot of places with that info.


 >
 >What about telling if its an A or a B from an advert?
 >
 >http://www.ultimatehardware.net/prices.htm
<font color=purple> >page cached at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://tinyurl.com/3fljv</font" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/3fljv</font</a>>

Well that table you linked would make it clear if you could buy from
that... some sellers will list that info but mostly you'd have to do as I
suggested above.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is T-Bred B faster and cooler than T-Bred A? 

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:10:58 GMT, Piotr Makley <pmakley RemoveThis @mail.com>
wrote:
 >This page <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.motherboardfaqs.com/article.php?17.255" target="_blank">http://www.motherboardfaqs.com/article.php?17.255</a> says:
 >
 > "The Thoroughbred "B" is simply a revised version of the
 > A core, with one major kick - speed! These chips feature
 > the usual optimizations on an instruction level, and
 > major modifications in the actual physical manufacturing
 > process."
 >
 >From this I guess that a Thoroughbred-B running at, let's say, 1600
 >MHz is faster than the older Thoroughbred-A running at the same
 >1600 MHz.

In a word: no. By "faster" they simply mean it will clock higher.

 >But AMD rates both these processors as having the same "Intel-
 >equivalent" performance of 1900+. It's the same for other models
 >of T-Bred A and B.
 >
 >I thought Throughbred B's are faster and cooler than the equivalent
 >Thoroughbred A's? Can someone please explain.

Clock for clock they perform the same, it's just that the 'B' model
(CPUID 681) will clock higher than the 'A' model (CPUID 680). In
terms of heat and power consumption, the 'B' model 2200+ consumes a
maximum of 62.7W while the 'A' model 2200+ (fastest available)
consumes 67.9W. However if you look at their slowest common speed,
the 1700+ model, both 'A' and 'B' steppings consume 49.4W It's only
the higher common speed grade that has a higher rated power
consumption figure.

So, in short, the Thoroughbred 'B' doesn't run either cooler (except
for the 2200+ model) or faster than the Thoroughbred 'A', it just
clocks higher.

-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is T-Bred B faster and cooler than T-Bred A? 

Piotr Makley wrote:

 > This page <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.motherboardfaqs.com/article.php?17.255" target="_blank">http://www.motherboardfaqs.com/article.php?17.255</a> says:
 >
 > "The Thoroughbred "B" is simply a revised version of the
 > A core, with one major kick - speed! These chips feature
 > the usual optimizations on an instruction level, and
 > major modifications in the actual physical manufacturing
 > process."
 >
 > From this I guess that a Thoroughbred-B running at, let's say, 1600
 > MHz is faster than the older Thoroughbred-A running at the same
 > 1600 MHz.
 >
 > But AMD rates both these processors as having the same "Intel-
 > equivalent" performance of 1900+. It's the same for other models
 > of T-Bred A and B.
 >
 > I thought Thoroughbred B's are faster and cooler than the equivalent
 > Thoroughbred A's? Can someone please explain.

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1685" target="_blank">http://anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1685</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is T-Bred B faster and cooler than T-Bred A? 

Tony Hill wrote:
 > On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:10:58 GMT, Piotr Makley <pmakley RemoveThis @mail.com>
 > wrote:
  >> This page <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.motherboardfaqs.com/article.php?17.255" target="_blank">http://www.motherboardfaqs.com/article.php?17.255</a> says:
  >>
  >> "The Thoroughbred "B" is simply a revised version of the
  >> A core, with one major kick - speed! These chips feature
  >> the usual optimizations on an instruction level, and
  >> major modifications in the actual physical manufacturing
  >> process."
  >>
  >> From this I guess that a Thoroughbred-B running at, let's say, 1600
  >> MHz is faster than the older Thoroughbred-A running at the same
  >> 1600 MHz.
 >
 > In a word: no. By "faster" they simply mean it will clock higher.
 >
  >> But AMD rates both these processors as having the same "Intel-
  >> equivalent" performance of 1900+. It's the same for other models
  >> of T-Bred A and B.
  >>
  >> I thought Throughbred B's are faster and cooler than the equivalent
  >> Thoroughbred A's? Can someone please explain.
 >
 > Clock for clock they perform the same, it's just that the 'B' model
 > (CPUID 681) will clock higher than the 'A' model (CPUID 680). In
 > terms of heat and power consumption, the 'B' model 2200+ consumes a
 > maximum of 62.7W while the 'A' model 2200+ (fastest available)
 > consumes 67.9W. However if you look at their slowest common speed,
 > the 1700+ model, both 'A' and 'B' steppings consume 49.4W It's only
 > the higher common speed grade that has a higher rated power
 > consumption figure.
 >
 > So, in short, the Thoroughbred 'B' doesn't run either cooler (except
 > for the 2200+ model) or faster than the Thoroughbred 'A', it just
 > clocks higher.

Well said. I was going to say the same myself but had a busy day yesterday
and didn't have the time. I found it hard to believe that nobody had
explained it properly, as you just did.
--
~misfit~<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is T-Bred B faster and cooler than T-Bred A? 

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:01:09 -0400, Tony Hill
<hilla_nospam_20 RemoveThis @yahoo.ca> wrote:

 >On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:10:58 GMT, Piotr Makley <pmakley RemoveThis @mail.com>
 >wrote:
  >>This page <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.motherboardfaqs.com/article.php?17.255" target="_blank">http://www.motherboardfaqs.com/article.php?17.255</a> says:
  >>
  >> "The Thoroughbred "B" is simply a revised version of the
  >> A core, with one major kick - speed! These chips feature
  >> the usual optimizations on an instruction level, and
  >> major modifications in the actual physical manufacturing
  >> process."
  >>
  >>From this I guess that a Thoroughbred-B running at, let's say, 1600
  >>MHz is faster than the older Thoroughbred-A running at the same
  >>1600 MHz.
 >
 >In a word: no. By "faster" they simply mean it will clock higher.
 >
  >>But AMD rates both these processors as having the same "Intel-
  >>equivalent" performance of 1900+. It's the same for other models
  >>of T-Bred A and B.
  >>
  >>I thought Throughbred B's are faster and cooler than the equivalent
  >>Thoroughbred A's? Can someone please explain.
 >
 >Clock for clock they perform the same, it's just that the 'B' model
 >(CPUID 681) will clock higher than the 'A' model (CPUID 680). In
 >terms of heat and power consumption, the 'B' model 2200+ consumes a
 >maximum of 62.7W while the 'A' model 2200+ (fastest available)
 >consumes 67.9W. However if you look at their slowest common speed,
 >the 1700+ model, both 'A' and 'B' steppings consume 49.4W It's only
 >the higher common speed grade that has a higher rated power
 >consumption figure.
 >
 >So, in short, the Thoroughbred 'B' doesn't run either cooler (except
 >for the 2200+ model) or faster than the Thoroughbred 'A', it just
 >clocks higher.

Yes. The way I remember it, 'A' chips had hot spots. Making it
difficult to cool sufficiently, and high clocks unfeasible.
I think the major change introduced with the additional layers, is
that the power/heat output is more uniformly distributed over the chip
area.

ancra<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is T-Bred B faster and cooler than T-Bred A?