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blewyn

External


Since: Dec 27, 2003
Posts: 5



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:01 am
Post subject: Continuing Power Problems.....
Archived from groups: alt>comp>periphs>mainboard>abit (more info?)

Following on from my previous threads about blowing PSUs on my
KG7-based system, I have a new question. I've eliminated the
motherboard and video card as the culprits by buying new ones. I
still get voltages of :

5v - 4.85
3c - 3.3
12v - 12.7 (idle) to 13.2 (load)

Now I thought the problem was something on my old board due to faulty
AGP or video card.....however, last night I tried to convert an AVI
file to WMV with Media Encoder. After strting the task, I notived the
program has a 'CPU load' meter, which was showing 100% - and sure
enough after 5 seconds the PSU blew.

My question is - do these voltages above indicate a possible CPU
problem ? The CPU has been on a 6-hr flight at 33K ft, been jigged
about a bit, AND has been separated from the heatsink and reattached
without any new adhesive or paste (just can't get the stuff here).
However - these voltages were the same before I detached the heatsink.
Interestingly, there was plenty of the AMD 'sticky pad' on the
heatsink around the contact area with the CPU chip, but none actually
between the CPU and the sink. It is as if the material between the
CPU and sink has been pressed or gradually dried away (no burn marks).

There is a shop in town that has a new XP3000 Barton CPU (which my
mobo can use, after a BIOS upgrade). What do you reckon - could it be
the solution to my problems ?

Thanks

Blewyn

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0_Qed

External


Since: Sep 15, 2004
Posts: 686



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2004 11:13 am
Post subject: Re: Continuing Power Problems..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

blewyn wrote:
 >
 > Following on from my previous threads about blowing PSUs on my
 > KG7-based system, I have a new question. I've eliminated the
 > motherboard and video card as the culprits by buying new ones. I
 > still get voltages of :
 >
 > 5v - 4.85
 > 3c - 3.3
 > 12v - 12.7 (idle) to 13.2 (load)

Huh?
??==> 12v - 12.7 (load) to 13.2 (idle)

Have you computed the 'pwr' loads(W) on all these( on 3 ) 'rails' ???


 > Now I thought the problem was something on my old board due to faulty
 > AGP or video card.....however, last night I tried to convert an AVI
 > file to WMV with Media Encoder. After strting the task, I notived the
 > program has a 'CPU load' meter, which was showing 100% - and sure
 > enough after 5 seconds the PSU blew.

Sounds, yet "again", like a bummer PSU ...
possibly too,
do you have consistant, valid 'source' voltage at the "mains" ... ???

A $20USD, Ho Chi Mien 'trail', 400W PSU probably aint gonna survive
just the initial plug 'in' ... let alone the 1st gentle " un_boxing ".


 > My question is - do these voltages above indicate a possible CPU
 > problem ? The CPU has been on a 6-hr flight at 33K ft, been jigged
 > about a bit, AND has been separated from the heatsink and reattached
 > without any new adhesive or paste (just can't get the stuff here).
 > However - these voltages were the same before I detached the heatsink.
 > Interestingly, there was plenty of the AMD 'sticky pad' on the
 > heatsink around the contact area with the CPU chip, but none actually
 > between the CPU and the sink. It is as if the material between the
 > CPU and sink has been pressed or gradually dried away (no burn marks).

The 'assumption' is that the new/boxed CPU+heat_sink+fan assembly "flew"
in a cargo box in the cargo bay ... shouldnt hurt a bit.
"In" your luggage is a bit 'nicer'.

The 'pad' is there to prevent rocking, upon assembly, of the HS to the
chip.
I cant 'explain' the lack of "paste" twixt chip & HS ...
dunno, the "paste" mite aughta be there.

I doubt that 'pads' dry up & totally disappear.
Nah.


 > There is a shop in town that has a new XP3000 Barton CPU (which my
 > mobo can use, after a BIOS upgrade). What do you reckon - could it be
 > the solution to my problems ?

Solve your #1_problems 1st ... main's pwr &/or PSU ...
then ... consider swopping horses in mid stream .

Next "air" trip ...
Smile
get( ?have? separately shipped ) : ...
.. new =quality= PSU ( Enermax 450W ??? )
.. heat-sink "paste"
.. Bios Savour unit for =your= eeprom chip
optional : ...
.. quality VOM , ac/dc capable
.. a properly 'sized' APC battery BU ( if local 'mains' pwr is suspect )

My 'assumptions' are
.. that your CPU chip, mobo, adapter cards are all still good ;
.. you run in an A/C environment .

 > Thanks
 > Blewyn

Be thankful you're not contending with 6' of snow, like Homie.

Best of 'luck', dont dispair & give up,
Qed.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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TomG

External


Since: Nov 18, 2003
Posts: 1219



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2004 12:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Continuing Power Problems..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I have a problem seeing how the CPU can be responsible for voltage
regulation problems given that the CPU has no involvement with voltage
regulation. the CPU is a consumer of power but not a regulator. the mobo
has onboard regulators to regulate for the CPU core and memory as well as
I/O components.

you eliminated the mobo by replacement so I'd be looking at some other
common element such as poor input power, the switch on the PS for input
voltage being in the wrong position (although I'd expect that the system
would not run in this case) or airflow issues causing the PS to overheat
during load, etc.

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="ftp://geerynet.d2g.com" target="_blank">ftp://geerynet.d2g.com</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="ftp://68.98.180.8" target="_blank">ftp://68.98.180.8</a> Abit Mirror <----- Cable modem IP
This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
over 120,000 FTP users served!
^^^^^^^




"blewyn" <blewyn DeleteThis @btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1f63b835.0401030101.27f7908b@posting.google.com...
 > Following on from my previous threads about blowing PSUs on my
 > KG7-based system, I have a new question. I've eliminated the
 > motherboard and video card as the culprits by buying new ones. I
 > still get voltages of :
 >
 > 5v - 4.85
 > 3c - 3.3
 > 12v - 12.7 (idle) to 13.2 (load)
 >
 > Now I thought the problem was something on my old board due to faulty
 > AGP or video card.....however, last night I tried to convert an AVI
 > file to WMV with Media Encoder. After strting the task, I notived the
 > program has a 'CPU load' meter, which was showing 100% - and sure
 > enough after 5 seconds the PSU blew.
 >
 > My question is - do these voltages above indicate a possible CPU
 > problem ? The CPU has been on a 6-hr flight at 33K ft, been jigged
 > about a bit, AND has been separated from the heatsink and reattached
 > without any new adhesive or paste (just can't get the stuff here).
 > However - these voltages were the same before I detached the heatsink.
 > Interestingly, there was plenty of the AMD 'sticky pad' on the
 > heatsink around the contact area with the CPU chip, but none actually
 > between the CPU and the sink. It is as if the material between the
 > CPU and sink has been pressed or gradually dried away (no burn marks).
 >
 > There is a shop in town that has a new XP3000 Barton CPU (which my
 > mobo can use, after a BIOS upgrade). What do you reckon - could it be
 > the solution to my problems ?
 >
 > Thanks
 >
 > Blewyn<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Continuing Power Problems..... 
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ICee

External


Since: Jan 04, 2004
Posts: 154



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Continuing Power Problems..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

blewyn wrote:
 > Following on from my previous threads about blowing PSUs on my
 > KG7-based system, I have a new question. I've eliminated the
 > motherboard and video card as the culprits by buying new ones. I
 > still get voltages of :
 >
 > 5v - 4.85
 > 3c - 3.3
 > 12v - 12.7 (idle) to 13.2 (load)
 >
 > Now I thought the problem was something on my old board due to faulty
 > AGP or video card.....however, last night I tried to convert an AVI
 > file to WMV with Media Encoder. After strting the task, I notived the
 > program has a 'CPU load' meter, which was showing 100% - and sure
 > enough after 5 seconds the PSU blew.
 >
 > My question is - do these voltages above indicate a possible CPU
 > problem ? The CPU has been on a 6-hr flight at 33K ft, been jigged
 > about a bit, AND has been separated from the heatsink and reattached
 > without any new adhesive or paste (just can't get the stuff here).
 > However - these voltages were the same before I detached the heatsink.
 > Interestingly, there was plenty of the AMD 'sticky pad' on the
 > heatsink around the contact area with the CPU chip, but none actually
 > between the CPU and the sink. It is as if the material between the
 > CPU and sink has been pressed or gradually dried away (no burn marks).
 >
 > There is a shop in town that has a new XP3000 Barton CPU (which my
 > mobo can use, after a BIOS upgrade). What do you reckon - could it be
 > the solution to my problems ?
 >
 > Thanks
 >
 > Blewyn

Your problem right now is heat. There is no heatsink compound on the
CPU die from your description. It sounds like you have the retail
heatsink, which comes with a TIM (Thermal Interface Material), that is
meant for one use only.
All that will have to be cleaned from the CPU and the heatsink and you
will need to apply a thin layer of heatsink compound on the CPU die.
These instructions should be followed for any make/type heatsink
compound:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm" target="_blank">http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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blewyn

External


Since: Dec 27, 2003
Posts: 5



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:17 am
Post subject: Re: Continuing Power Problems..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"TomG" <tgeery-NOSPAM-.TakeThisOut@cox.net> wrote in message news:<8sAJb.33964$F22.13589@lakeread02>...
 > I have a problem seeing how the CPU can be responsible for voltage
 > regulation problems given that the CPU has no involvement with voltage
 > regulation. the CPU is a consumer of power but not a regulator. the mobo
 > has onboard regulators to regulate for the CPU core and memory as well as
 > I/O components.
 >
 > you eliminated the mobo by replacement so I'd be looking at some other
 > common element such as poor input power, the switch on the PS for input
 > voltage being in the wrong position (although I'd expect that the system
 > would not run in this case) or airflow issues causing the PS to overheat
 > during load, etc.
 >

Thanks Tom. I have a voltage/current regulator thing (about the size
of a small car battery and heavy) so I think my power should be OK -
must be these damned cheap PSUs. Just wanted to eliminate all
possibilities before I bring an expensive PSU over from the UK only to
blow the damn thing.

Cheers,

Blewyn<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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TomG

External


Since: Nov 18, 2003
Posts: 1219



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 1:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Continuing Power Problems..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

well, the 12 volts is not regulated by the mobo, as I understand it. core
voltages, ram and I/O voltages are considered critical components and are
regulated on the mobo. the board relies on the PS to have clean 12 and 5
volts, again, as I understand it.

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="ftp://geerynet.d2g.com" target="_blank">ftp://geerynet.d2g.com</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="ftp://68.98.180.8" target="_blank">ftp://68.98.180.8</a> Abit Mirror <----- Cable modem IP
This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
over 120,000 FTP users served!
^^^^^^^




"blewyn" <blewyn.TakeThisOut@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1f63b835.0401032317.7a4abccd@posting.google.com...
 > "TomG" <tgeery-NOSPAM-.TakeThisOut@cox.net> wrote in message
news:<8sAJb.33964$F22.13589@lakeread02>...
  > > I have a problem seeing how the CPU can be responsible for voltage
  > > regulation problems given that the CPU has no involvement with voltage
  > > regulation. the CPU is a consumer of power but not a regulator. the
mobo
  > > has onboard regulators to regulate for the CPU core and memory as well
as
  > > I/O components.
  > >
  > > you eliminated the mobo by replacement so I'd be looking at some other
  > > common element such as poor input power, the switch on the PS for input
  > > voltage being in the wrong position (although I'd expect that the system
  > > would not run in this case) or airflow issues causing the PS to overheat
  > > during load, etc.
  > >
 >
 > Thanks Tom. I have a voltage/current regulator thing (about the size
 > of a small car battery and heavy) so I think my power should be OK -
 > must be these damned cheap PSUs. Just wanted to eliminate all
 > possibilities before I bring an expensive PSU over from the UK only to
 > blow the damn thing.
 >
 > Cheers,
 >
 > Blewyn<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Homie

External


Since: Aug 03, 2004
Posts: 48



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 12:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Continuing Power Problems..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

The Problem is your ATX supply.
Take a look at the 5 volt rail.....
Cheapo/ poorly designed supplies on have feedback on one rail. You can tell which rail
is regulated with feedback by inspecting the ATX harness. look at the groups of
Orange, Red and Yellow wires, if the group has one smaller diameter wire, that is most
likely a feedback line that allows true regulation on that rail.. My guess is that
your orange wires have 2 large diameter wires and one small diameter wire. That
smaller wire is the feedback line. orange is the 3.3 volt rail. Now check the red
wires,if they are all the same diameter, there is no feedback and that would explain
the drooping voltage (4.85 is too damn low) on the 5 volt rail

--
Mainboards, Videocards & CPU pin repair.

http://motherboardrepair.com
gary.RemoveThis@motherboardrepair.com

"blewyn" <blewyn.RemoveThis@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1f63b835.0401030101.27f7908b@posting.google.com...
Following on from my previous threads about blowing PSUs on my
KG7-based system, I have a new question. I've eliminated the
motherboard and video card as the culprits by buying new ones. I
still get voltages of :

5v - 4.85
3c - 3.3
12v - 12.7 (idle) to 13.2 (load)

Now I thought the problem was something on my old board due to faulty
AGP or video card.....however, last night I tried to convert an AVI
file to WMV with Media Encoder. After strting the task, I notived the
program has a 'CPU load' meter, which was showing 100% - and sure
enough after 5 seconds the PSU blew.

My question is - do these voltages above indicate a possible CPU
problem ? The CPU has been on a 6-hr flight at 33K ft, been jigged
about a bit, AND has been separated from the heatsink and reattached
without any new adhesive or paste (just can't get the stuff here).
However - these voltages were the same before I detached the heatsink.
Interestingly, there was plenty of the AMD 'sticky pad' on the
heatsink around the contact area with the CPU chip, but none actually
between the CPU and the sink. It is as if the material between the
CPU and sink has been pressed or gradually dried away (no burn marks).

There is a shop in town that has a new XP3000 Barton CPU (which my
mobo can use, after a BIOS upgrade). What do you reckon - could it be
the solution to my problems ?

Thanks

Blewyn
 >> Stay informed about: Continuing Power Problems..... 
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Daniel L. Belton

External


Since: Jan 07, 2004
Posts: 8



(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 2:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Continuing Power Problems..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

C'mon Homie... My Enermax 461 watt, all the wires are the same size on
the ARX harness...

Homie wrote:

 > The Problem is your ATX supply.
 > Take a look at the 5 volt rail.....
 > Cheapo/ poorly designed supplies on have feedback on one rail. You can tell which rail
 > is regulated with feedback by inspecting the ATX harness. look at the groups of
 > Orange, Red and Yellow wires, if the group has one smaller diameter wire, that is most
 > likely a feedback line that allows true regulation on that rail.. My guess is that
 > your orange wires have 2 large diameter wires and one small diameter wire. That
 > smaller wire is the feedback line. orange is the 3.3 volt rail. Now check the red
 > wires,if they are all the same diameter, there is no feedback and that would explain
 > the drooping voltage (4.85 is too damn low) on the 5 volt rail
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Homie

External


Since: Aug 03, 2004
Posts: 48



(Msg. 9) Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Continuing Power Problems..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Yep,
I was looking at some of the supplies I have laying around, some have smaller wires
for feedback lines some just have an extra connection (2 orange wires going to the
same pin) and some have a different color wire tied at the rail pin.
So it seems that there is no real standard way to build ATX supplies.

I have been looking at the supplies at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.pcpowercooling.com" target="_blank">www.pcpowercooling.com</a> , some of their products
look very interesting but I won't know for sure until I get to gut one.


Homie

--
Mainboards, Videocards & CPU pin repair.

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://motherboardrepair.com" target="_blank">http://motherboardrepair.com</a>
gary.RemoveThis@motherboardrepair.com

"Daniel L. Belton" <abuse.RemoveThis@spam.gov> wrote in message
news:egRLb.5297$RT.4377@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
C'mon Homie... My Enermax 461 watt, all the wires are the same size on
the ARX harness...

Homie wrote:

 > The Problem is your ATX supply.
 > Take a look at the 5 volt rail.....
 > Cheapo/ poorly designed supplies on have feedback on one rail. You can tell which
rail
 > is regulated with feedback by inspecting the ATX harness. look at the groups of
 > Orange, Red and Yellow wires, if the group has one smaller diameter wire, that is
most
 > likely a feedback line that allows true regulation on that rail.. My guess is that
 > your orange wires have 2 large diameter wires and one small diameter wire. That
 > smaller wire is the feedback line. orange is the 3.3 volt rail. Now check the red
 > wires,if they are all the same diameter, there is no feedback and that would explain
 > the drooping voltage (4.85 is too damn low) on the 5 volt rail
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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blewyn

External


Since: Dec 27, 2003
Posts: 5



(Msg. 10) Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 12:49 am
Post subject: Re: Continuing Power Problems..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Well, you were all right. I finally managed to find a shop here in
Al-Khobar that sells the latest kit (Athlon 64 in Saudi!) and the guy
know what he is doing, so got myself a Zalman 400W PSU for 20 times
the price of the cheapo Chinese PSUs and now my PX works fine.

For anyone that needs to know, it's in Dossary Towers on the Dhahran
Road.

Cheers,

Blewyn
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Daniel L. Belton

External


Since: Jan 07, 2004
Posts: 8



(Msg. 11) Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 7:40 am
Post subject: Re: Continuing Power Problems..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Whoa!!! a standard??? you gotta be kidding!!!



Homie wrote:

 > Yep,
 > I was looking at some of the supplies I have laying around, some have smaller wires
 > for feedback lines some just have an extra connection (2 orange wires going to the
 > same pin) and some have a different color wire tied at the rail pin.
 > So it seems that there is no real standard way to build ATX supplies.
 >
 > I have been looking at the supplies at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.pcpowercooling.com" target="_blank">www.pcpowercooling.com</a> , some of their products
 > look very interesting but I won't know for sure until I get to gut one.
 >
 >
 > Homie
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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