Difference between a Disk Image and a Clone

Thanks.

Are there size differences between the two formats (image vs disk, i.e.,
is the image a compressed file, is the clone a compressed file or does
it retain a file structure, does the clone need to have the same file
structure, NTFS, FAT32 as the original disk)? What would be the
advantage of one over the other? Can individual files be extracted from
a clone?

Thanks,
Harvey

Rod Speed wrote:

 > Harvey Gratt <hgratt.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
 > news:iy%Kb.770204$Tr4.2210645@attbi_s03...
 >
 >
  >>Can someone please supply a precise definition of each
 >
 >
 > A disk image is a file or set of files that contain all the
 > data from the disk its an image of. It can also be an image
 > of just a partition, rather than the entire physical disk.
 >
 > An image needs to be restored to a physical drive before it can
 > be used, tho most imaging programs do provide some way to
 > browse images so that individual files can be extracted etc.
 >
 > A clone is an exact copy of a disk, to another physical disk.
 >
 > A clone can also be a clone of a partition rather than a physical disk.
 >
 >
  >>and what the differences are?
 >
 >
 > The most important difference with an image is that
 > it cant be used as it is for normal operations and
 > cant be booted etc. It needs to be restored first.
 >
 > A cloned disk can do anything the original disk can do.
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference between a Disk Image and a Clone 

Rod Speed wrote:

 > Harvey Gratt <hgratt DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
 > news:iy%Kb.770204$Tr4.2210645@attbi_s03...
 >
 >
  >>Can someone please supply a precise definition of each
 >
 >
 > A disk image is a file or set of files that contain all the
 > data from the disk its an image of. It can also be an image
 > of just a partition, rather than the entire physical disk.
 >
 > An image needs to be restored to a physical drive before it can
 > be used, tho most imaging programs do provide some way to
 > browse images so that individual files can be extracted etc.
 >
 > A clone is an exact copy of a disk, to another physical disk.

In that case, what Ghost calls a clone is not really a clone,
since it reorders clusters and can act between disks of different
sizes.

Something like dd would be the only software that creates clones
under that definition.

 >
 > A clone can also be a clone of a partition rather than a physical disk.
 >
 >
  >>and what the differences are?
 >
 >
 > The most important difference with an image is that
 > it cant be used as it is for normal operations and
 > cant be booted etc. It needs to be restored first.
 >
 > A cloned disk can do anything the original disk can do.
 >
 >


--
After being targeted with gigabytes of trash by the "SWEN" worm, I have
concluded we must conceal our e-mail address. Our true address is the
mirror image of what you see before the "@" symbol. It's a shame such
steps are necessary. ...Charlie<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference between a Disk Image and a Clone 

"CJT" wrote:
 > Rod Speed wrote:
  > > A clone is an exact copy of a disk, to another physical disk.
 >
 > In that case, what Ghost calls a clone is not really a clone,
 > since it reorders clusters and can act between disks of different
 > sizes.


He meant "drive" - either logical or physical - instead of "disk"

*TimDaniels*<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference between a Disk Image and a Clone 

Harvey Gratt <hgratt RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ey0Lb.777494$Fm2.754706@attbi_s04...

 > Thanks.

 > Are there size differences between the two formats
 > (image vs disk, i.e., is the image a compressed file,

Yes, tho most imaging programs allow you to specify if there
is compression or no compression at all for a higher speed.
And the image file normally doesnt include the free space either.

 > is the clone a compressed file

Nope, its an exact copy of the original.

 > or does it retain a file structure, does the clone need to have
 > the same file structure, NTFS, FAT32 as the original disk)?

Yep. Tho some programs can convert as well as clone.

 > What would be the advantage of one over the other?

Image files are normally much smaller, particularly with
maximum compression. That allows you to have more than
one image on the drive thats used to store the image files.

 > Can individual files be extracted from a clone?

Yes, its just a normal disk or partition and any normal file
ops can be done on the clone, using the standard file ops
too. With an image file you can READ files from the image
but normally need to use the imaging program's browser
to do that, and its not as easy to add files to the image,
tho some imaging programs do allow that.


 > Rod Speed wrote:
 >
  > > Harvey Gratt <hgratt RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
  > > news:iy%Kb.770204$Tr4.2210645@attbi_s03...
  > >
  > >
   > >>Can someone please supply a precise definition of each
  > >
  > >
  > > A disk image is a file or set of files that contain all the
  > > data from the disk its an image of. It can also be an image
  > > of just a partition, rather than the entire physical disk.
  > >
  > > An image needs to be restored to a physical drive before it can
  > > be used, tho most imaging programs do provide some way to
  > > browse images so that individual files can be extracted etc.
  > >
  > > A clone is an exact copy of a disk, to another physical disk.
  > >
  > > A clone can also be a clone of a partition rather than a physical disk.
  > >
  > >
   > >>and what the differences are?
  > >
  > >
  > > The most important difference with an image is that
  > > it cant be used as it is for normal operations and
  > > cant be booted etc. It needs to be restored first.
  > >
  > > A cloned disk can do anything the original disk can do.
  > >
  > >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference between a Disk Image and a Clone 

Rod,

Thanks again. I appreciate you taking the time to answer. One more
question concerning the clone file structure - my original question was
not clear:

If my external HDD is formatted as FAT32, can I clone a disk which has
its OS as NTFS or do I need to make an NTFS partition on the external
HDD. Or, would the cloning software convert the NTFS to FAT32 (if so, I
guess I lose the NTFSF formmating for later use).

Thanks,
Harvey

Rod Speed wrote:
 > Harvey Gratt <hgratt.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
 > news:ey0Lb.777494$Fm2.754706@attbi_s04...
 >
 >
  >>Thanks.
 >
 >
  >>Are there size differences between the two formats
  >>(image vs disk, i.e., is the image a compressed file,
 >
 >
 > Yes, tho most imaging programs allow you to specify if there
 > is compression or no compression at all for a higher speed.
 > And the image file normally doesnt include the free space either.
 >
 >
  >>is the clone a compressed file
 >
 >
 > Nope, its an exact copy of the original.
 >
 >
  >>or does it retain a file structure, does the clone need to have
  >>the same file structure, NTFS, FAT32 as the original disk)?
 >
 >
 > Yep. Tho some programs can convert as well as clone.
 >
 >
  >>What would be the advantage of one over the other?
 >
 >
 > Image files are normally much smaller, particularly with
 > maximum compression. That allows you to have more than
 > one image on the drive thats used to store the image files.
 >
 >
  >>Can individual files be extracted from a clone?
 >
 >
 > Yes, its just a normal disk or partition and any normal file
 > ops can be done on the clone, using the standard file ops
 > too. With an image file you can READ files from the image
 > but normally need to use the imaging program's browser
 > to do that, and its not as easy to add files to the image,
 > tho some imaging programs do allow that.
 >
 >
 >
  >>Rod Speed wrote:
  >>
  >>
   >>>Harvey Gratt <hgratt.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
   >>>news:iy%Kb.770204$Tr4.2210645@attbi_s03...
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>>Can someone please supply a precise definition of each
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>A disk image is a file or set of files that contain all the
   >>>data from the disk its an image of. It can also be an image
   >>>of just a partition, rather than the entire physical disk.
   >>>
   >>>An image needs to be restored to a physical drive before it can
   >>>be used, tho most imaging programs do provide some way to
   >>>browse images so that individual files can be extracted etc.
   >>>
   >>>A clone is an exact copy of a disk, to another physical disk.
   >>>
   >>>A clone can also be a clone of a partition rather than a physical disk.
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>>and what the differences are?
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>The most important difference with an image is that
   >>>it cant be used as it is for normal operations and
   >>>cant be booted etc. It needs to be restored first.
   >>>
   >>>A cloned disk can do anything the original disk can do.
   >>>
   >>>
  >>
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference between a Disk Image and a Clone 

"Harvey Gratt" asked:
 >
 > If my external HDD is formatted as FAT32, can I clone a disk which has
 > its OS as NTFS or do I need to make an NTFS partition on the external
 > HDD. Or, would the cloning software convert the NTFS to FAT32 (if so,
 > I guess I lose the NTFSF formmating for later use).


Cloning implies a byte-for-byte copy of a drive (logical or physical),
and that implies a copy of the formatting as well. So a clone has the
same formatting as the original.

*TimDaniels*<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference between a Disk Image and a Clone 

Harvey Gratt <hgratt DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:sc2Lb.778690$Fm2.757050@attbi_s04...

 > Thanks again. I appreciate you taking the time to
 > answer. One more question concerning the clone
 > file structure - my original question was not clear:

 > If my external HDD is formatted as FAT32, can
 > I clone a disk which has its OS as NTFS or do I
 > need to make an NTFS partition on the external HDD.

The original format of the external HDD is completely irrelevant.
The program that does the cloning basically replaces what is
on the external HDD with the clone of the internal disk, losing
the original format of the external HDD in the process.

 > Or, would the cloning software convert the NTFS to FAT32

Nope.

 > (if so, I guess I lose the NTFSF formmating for later use).



 > Rod Speed wrote:
  > > Harvey Gratt <hgratt DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
  > > news:ey0Lb.777494$Fm2.754706@attbi_s04...
  > >
  > >
   > >>Thanks.
  > >
  > >
   > >>Are there size differences between the two formats
   > >>(image vs disk, i.e., is the image a compressed file,
  > >
  > >
  > > Yes, tho most imaging programs allow you to specify if there
  > > is compression or no compression at all for a higher speed.
  > > And the image file normally doesnt include the free space either.
  > >
  > >
   > >>is the clone a compressed file
  > >
  > >
  > > Nope, its an exact copy of the original.
  > >
  > >
   > >>or does it retain a file structure, does the clone need to have
   > >>the same file structure, NTFS, FAT32 as the original disk)?
  > >
  > >
  > > Yep. Tho some programs can convert as well as clone.
  > >
  > >
   > >>What would be the advantage of one over the other?
  > >
  > >
  > > Image files are normally much smaller, particularly with
  > > maximum compression. That allows you to have more than
  > > one image on the drive thats used to store the image files.
  > >
  > >
   > >>Can individual files be extracted from a clone?
  > >
  > >
  > > Yes, its just a normal disk or partition and any normal file
  > > ops can be done on the clone, using the standard file ops
  > > too. With an image file you can READ files from the image
  > > but normally need to use the imaging program's browser
  > > to do that, and its not as easy to add files to the image,
  > > tho some imaging programs do allow that.
  > >
  > >
  > >
   > >>Rod Speed wrote:
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>>Harvey Gratt <hgratt DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
   > >>>news:iy%Kb.770204$Tr4.2210645@attbi_s03...
   > >>>
   > >>>
   > >>>
   > >>>>Can someone please supply a precise definition of each
   > >>>
   > >>>
   > >>>A disk image is a file or set of files that contain all the
   > >>>data from the disk its an image of. It can also be an image
   > >>>of just a partition, rather than the entire physical disk.
   > >>>
   > >>>An image needs to be restored to a physical drive before it can
   > >>>be used, tho most imaging programs do provide some way to
   > >>>browse images so that individual files can be extracted etc.
   > >>>
   > >>>A clone is an exact copy of a disk, to another physical disk.
   > >>>
   > >>>A clone can also be a clone of a partition rather than a physical disk.
   > >>>
   > >>>
   > >>>
   > >>>>and what the differences are?
   > >>>
   > >>>
   > >>>The most important difference with an image is that
   > >>>it cant be used as it is for normal operations and
   > >>>cant be booted etc. It needs to be restored first.
   > >>>
   > >>>A cloned disk can do anything the original disk can do.
   > >>>
   > >>>
   > >>
  > >
  > >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference between a Disk Image and a Clone 

CJT <abujlehc DeleteThis @prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3FFCB505.4080804@prodigy.net...
 > Rod Speed wrote:
  >> Harvey Gratt <hgratt DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote

   >>> Can someone please supply a precise definition of each

  >> A disk image is a file or set of files that contain all the
  >> data from the disk its an image of. It can also be an image
  >> of just a partition, rather than the entire physical disk.

  >> An image needs to be restored to a physical drive before it can
  >> be used, tho most imaging programs do provide some way to
  >> browse images so that individual files can be extracted etc.

  >> A clone is an exact copy of a disk, to another physical disk.

 > In that case, what Ghost calls a clone is not really a clone, since
 > it reorders clusters and can act between disks of different sizes.

Sure, but it is a clone in the sense that
its operationally a complete copy.

And you can actually specify a sector by sector true
clone too with one of the command line switches.

And decent clone software allows the clone to be on a physically
larger drive than the original for operational convenience.

 > Something like dd would be the only software
 > that creates clones under that definition.

Ghost can do that too if you want to do that sort of true clone.

And true cloning should really have some mechanism
for dealing with bad sectors on the original too, because
thats one situation where true cloning is sometimes used,
when the original has either got royally screwed and you
want to try various approaches to recovery on the copy,
or the original is dying and you want to maximise the
chances of getting all you can off the original.

  >> A clone can also be a clone of a partition rather than a physical disk.

   >>> and what the differences are?

  >> The most important difference with an image is that
  >> it cant be used as it is for normal operations and
  >> cant be booted etc. It needs to be restored first.

  >> A cloned disk can do anything the original disk can do.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference between a Disk Image and a Clone 

Timothy Daniels <TDaniels DeleteThis @NoSpamDot.com> wrote in
message news:mY6dnc1iWZnGXGGiRVn-sQ@comcast.com...
 > Harvey Gratt wrote.

  >> If my external HDD is formatted as FAT32, can I clone a disk which has
  >> its OS as NTFS or do I need to make an NTFS partition on the external
  >> HDD. Or, would the cloning software convert the NTFS to FAT32 (if so,
  >> I guess I lose the NTFSF formmating for later use).

 > Cloning implies a byte-for-byte copy of a drive (logical or physical),

Nope. Its also a term used to cover a clone
that produces an operationally identical drive.

 > and that implies a copy of the formatting as well.
 > So a clone has the same formatting as the original.

Usually, but not always.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference between a Disk Image and a Clone 

Timothy Daniels <TDaniels.TakeThisOut@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in
message news:c4idnfuwzaYeX2GiRVn-sQ@comcast.com...
 > CJT wrote
  >> Rod Speed wrote

   >>> A clone is an exact copy of a disk, to another physical disk.

  >> In that case, what Ghost calls a clone is not really a clone, since
  >> it reorders clusters and can act between disks of different sizes.

 > He meant "drive" - either logical or physical - instead of "disk"

Like hell I did.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference between a Disk Image and a Clone 

"Rod Speed" coughed:
 > Timothy Daniels wrote:
  > > CJT wrote
   > >> Rod Speed wrote
 >
   > >>> A clone is an exact copy of a disk, to another physical disk.
 >
   > >> In that case, what Ghost calls a clone is not really a clone, since
   > >> it reorders clusters and can act between disks of different sizes.
 >
  > > He meant "drive" - either logical or physical - instead of "disk"
 >
 > Like hell I did.

You should have. Several logical drives can reside on a
physical disk and be bootable, and each can be independently
cloned to a partition on the same or another disk, resulting in
another bootable logical drive that is operationally identical to
the cloned drive.

*TimDaniels*<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference between a Disk Image and a Clone 

Timothy Daniels <TDaniels RemoveThis @NoSpamDot.com> wrote in
message news:qaWdncUEQeFxjWCiRVn-ig@comcast.com...
 > Rod Speed wrote
  >> Timothy Daniels wrote
   >>> CJT wrote
   >>>> Rod Speed wrote

   >>>>> A clone is an exact copy of a disk, to another physical disk.

   >>>> In that case, what Ghost calls a clone is not really a clone, since
   >>>> it reorders clusters and can act between disks of different sizes.

   >>> He meant "drive" - either logical or physical - instead of "disk"

  >> Like hell I did.

 > You should have.

Nope, HE used that word and I normally use the same term
as the was used in the question to keep things simple.

No point in getting sidetracked on the
particular term with a question like that.

I did choose to spell out the difference
between a physical disk and a partition too.

 > Several logical drives can reside
 > on a physical disk and be bootable,

No news to me, boy. And not relevant to his question
about the difference between a clone and an image.

 > and each can be independently cloned
 > to a partition on the same or another disk,

No news to me boy. I said that.

 > resulting in another bootable logical drive that
 > is operationally identical to the cloned drive.

What I said using the word drive instead of disk.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference between a Disk Image and a Clone