Red Hat getting serious about Opteron

Al Cappizi wrote:
 > "Yousuf Khan" <removethisspam.bjsk90.removethispam.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in
 >
  >>Red Hat is testing a version of its Linux that it hopes will run faster on
  >>Opteron than its previous version
 >
 > Who cares?

Well, serious people that want what's best for their IT
infrastructure, for one, should care about this.

Also, people that are sick of Microsoft and Intel (which
should have a huge overlap with the previous category)
should care about this.

Carlos
--<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Red Hat getting serious about Opteron 

"Yousuf Khan" <removethisspam.bjsk90.removethispam.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:9_SEb.97143$ea%.35264@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
 > You know that Opteron is serious when you have two rival software
companies
 > competing against each other to get software out that is better
 > Opteron-optimized than the ohter. It's even more striking that the two
 > software companies are not just any old software company, but they happen
to
 > be OS developers.
 >
 > Red Hat is testing a version of its Linux that it hopes will run faster on
 > Opteron than its previous version, because it is concerned that SuSE's
Linux
 > is too far ahead. The new version of Red Hat has NUMA awareness.
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5130174.html</font" target="_blank">http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5130174.html</font</a>>

I wonder if this activity might prod Microserf to get off their duff and get
Windoze 64 for AMD out there instead of -- as rumoured -- waiting around for
Intel to release their own flavor of x86-64?





--
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 >> Stay informed about: Red Hat getting serious about Opteron 

 >Subject: Re: Red Hat getting serious about Opteron
 >From: "Oxford Systems" oxfordsystems DeleteThis @earthlinkdot.net
 >Date: 12/20/2003 11:19 AM Eastern Standard Time
 >Message-id: <PE_Eb.6182$wL6.3731@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
 >
<snip>
 >
 >I wonder if this activity might prod Microserf to get off their duff and get
 >Windoze 64 for AMD out there instead of -- as rumoured -- waiting around for
 >Intel to release their own flavor of x86-64?

M$ get off its duff? Who are you kidding? Some 400 pound heavy from out of
town is sitting on Bill Gates' chest until Intel gets what it needs.

AMD fanboys are surely unhappy (and have a right to be), but don't you get some
relief from knowing that Microsoft is afraid of *somebody* (in this case,
Intel--that, by the way, makes Intel more powerful than the US DoJ)?

We probably won't know for years everything that has gone down and that
continues to go down, but it's a fair bet that nobody's saying what's really
going on.

RM<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Red Hat getting serious about Opteron 

On 20 Dec 2003 17:58:19 GMT, rmyers1400.DeleteThis@aol.com (Rmyers1400) wrote:

  >>Subject: Re: Red Hat getting serious about Opteron
  >>From: "Oxford Systems" oxfordsystems.DeleteThis@earthlinkdot.net
  >>Date: 12/20/2003 11:19 AM Eastern Standard Time
  >>Message-id: <PE_Eb.6182$wL6.3731@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
  >>
 ><snip>
  >>
  >>I wonder if this activity might prod Microserf to get off their duff and get
  >>Windoze 64 for AMD out there instead of -- as rumoured -- waiting around for
  >>Intel to release their own flavor of x86-64?
 >
 >M$ get off its duff? Who are you kidding? Some 400 pound heavy from out of
 >town is sitting on Bill Gates' chest until Intel gets what it needs.

And surely what Intel really wants is the "i" flavor of x86-64 instruction
set in WinXP-64 or whatever the OS is to be called. How could it be
otherwise? Anbody really think that Intel can digest the fact of adopting
a competitors ISA?

 >AMD fanboys are surely unhappy (and have a right to be), but don't you get some
 >relief from knowing that Microsoft is afraid of *somebody* (in this case,
 >Intel--that, by the way, makes Intel more powerful than the US DoJ)?

Uhh, you don't have to be a "fanboy" to get pissed at this kind of umm,
collaboration. I'm not sure M$ is afraid here - as long as Dell et.al. are
selling P4s and Xeons with Winxx they are in the catbird seat with nothing
much to gain from defecting to AMD. I guess they could be in a position to
lose significantly if Linux/Opteron takes off but that's a murky situation
in itself. IMO a key player here is Larry E., who would love nothing more
than to watch M$ flounder... if he can only dump the slim client fetish he
might have enough grunt to succeed.

 >We probably won't know for years everything that has gone down and that
 >continues to go down, but it's a fair bet that nobody's saying what's really
 >going on.

I hope that AMD has good "intelligence".

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Red Hat getting serious about Opteron 

 >Subject: Re: Red Hat getting serious about Opteron
 >From: George Macdonald fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com
 >Date: 12/20/2003 2:23 PM Eastern Standard Time
 >Message-id: <8f69uv48m9ho4ulv9re8kibh2gd99fvt7l.DeleteThis@4ax.com>
 >
<snip>

 >I'm not sure M$ is afraid here - as long as Dell et.al. are
 >selling P4s and Xeons with Winxx they are in the catbird seat with nothing
 >much to gain from defecting to AMD. I guess they could be in a position to
 >lose significantly if Linux/Opteron takes off but that's a murky situation
 >in itself. IMO a key player here is Larry E., who would love nothing more
 >than to watch M$ flounder... if he can only dump the slim client fetish he
 >might have enough grunt to succeed.
 >

It wouldn't just be Linux/Opteron taking off in Intel's offer to Bill that he
will feel unable to refuse. I'm sure they've told him that they've got the
instruction set, and they've got the supporting code for gcc and anything else
required in gnu/linux ready to go for their own 64-bit x86 isa. Take it or
leave it.

You're right. It's probably not Intel that Bill is afraid of. It's gnu/linux.
And yes, Oracle would be a big winner, too. Can't you take *some* pleasure in
thinking about how it must completely ruin any kind of holiday Bill and Steve
have planned for themselves?

RM<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Red Hat getting serious about Opteron 

On 20 Dec 2003 19:50:27 GMT, rmyers1400 RemoveThis @aol.com (Rmyers1400) wrote:

  >>Subject: Re: Red Hat getting serious about Opteron
  >>From: George Macdonald fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com
  >>Date: 12/20/2003 2:23 PM Eastern Standard Time
  >>Message-id: <8f69uv48m9ho4ulv9re8kibh2gd99fvt7l RemoveThis @4ax.com>
  >>
 ><snip>
 >
  >>I'm not sure M$ is afraid here - as long as Dell et.al. are
  >>selling P4s and Xeons with Winxx they are in the catbird seat with nothing
  >>much to gain from defecting to AMD. I guess they could be in a position to
  >>lose significantly if Linux/Opteron takes off but that's a murky situation
  >>in itself. IMO a key player here is Larry E., who would love nothing more
  >>than to watch M$ flounder... if he can only dump the slim client fetish he
  >>might have enough grunt to succeed.
  >>
 >
 >It wouldn't just be Linux/Opteron taking off in Intel's offer to Bill that he
 >will feel unable to refuse. I'm sure they've told him that they've got the
 >instruction set, and they've got the supporting code for gcc and anything else
 >required in gnu/linux ready to go for their own 64-bit x86 isa. Take it or
 >leave it.

As you have suggested, it's a big world out there - momentum for Linux is
building in Germany and in other EU countries it's starting to take hold
too. The EU bureacraps just love issuing "directives"... you never know.
Then there's Asia where the Linux distribution "model" for software
acquisition is an ideal fit. There's plenty of talent there to do the dog
work... just imagine: "All your Linuxes are belong to us!"

 >You're right. It's probably not Intel that Bill is afraid of. It's gnu/linux.
 > And yes, Oracle would be a big winner, too. Can't you take *some* pleasure in
 >thinking about how it must completely ruin any kind of holiday Bill and Steve
 >have planned for themselves?

Yeah well I have this fantasy where I serve the gruel to Bill & Steve for
the festive meal as they sit and grumble about their misfortunes and all
the BOGU they did... and had none in return when it was their turn.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Red Hat getting serious about Opteron 

"Carlos Moreno" <moreno_at_mochima_dot_com.TakeThisOut@x.xxx> wrote in message
news:Sr_Eb.33949$7S3.507705@weber.videotron.net...

  > >
   > >>Red Hat is testing a version of its Linux that it hopes will run faster
on
   > >>Opteron than its previous version
  > >
  > > Who cares?
 >
 > Well, serious people that want what's best for their IT
 > infrastructure, for one, should care about this.
 >
 > Also, people that are sick of Microsoft and Intel (which
 > should have a huge overlap with the previous category)
 > should care about this.
 >
 > Carlos
 > --

I don't think I understand the direction of your reply; as far as I can
tell, Linux still hasn't made the big time and I don't think it ever will,
it's still full of bugs. As far as AMD, it has always been second to Intel
no matter what product it tried to sell. In other words, it hasn't proved
yet that it can manufacture better CPU's _overall_ than Intel<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Red Hat getting serious about Opteron 

On a sunny day (Sat, 20 Dec 2003 20:42:49 GMT) it happened "Al Cappizi"
<bigal.TakeThisOut@telenet.net> wrote in <dv2Fb.9306$T2.5396@fe1.columbus.rr.com>:

 >
 >"Carlos Moreno" <moreno_at_mochima_dot_com.TakeThisOut@x.xxx> wrote in message
 >news:Sr_Eb.33949$7S3.507705@weber.videotron.net...
 >
   >> >
   >> >>Red Hat is testing a version of its Linux that it hopes will run faster
 >on
   >> >>Opteron than its previous version
   >> >
   >> > Who cares?
  >>
  >> Well, serious people that want what's best for their IT
  >> infrastructure, for one, should care about this.
  >>
  >> Also, people that are sick of Microsoft and Intel (which
  >> should have a huge overlap with the previous category)
  >> should care about this.
  >>
  >> Carlos
  >> --
 >
 >I don't think I understand the direction of your reply; as far as I can
 >tell, Linux still hasn't made the big time and I don't think it ever will,
 >it's still full of bugs.
I did just read today that 138 governments have now chosen Linux.
Bugs? Sure, my system is up 24 / 7, strange, no reboots.
And I develop things that do put the hardware to the limit.
In windows (I still run 98, because Linux makes it redundant),
always 'reboot', the most stupid thing ever.
Moronic, that reboot business, imagine a car that you had to stop
and restart every time you light your cigar.
I think AMD is really cool, I have an Intel and an AMD PC here.
Both work right, both in MS windows and Linux.
But today I was reading tests of AMD 64 bit (versus G5 Apple), and
AMD is really better... and cheaper (for the same configuration).
Pentium 4 I dunno.... dinosaur.
Then of cause this DRM shit from MS, why alienate your customers?
All those security holes....
Get a good distribution of Linux, Suse maybe, what more can you want?
Most professional software is being ported to Unix / Linux.
Look, there ALWAYS will be bugs, but these will get fixed.
Then the price difference, upgrades, maintenance, lots of people put
love and care into Linux.
A much wider variety of software.
Maybe you are just jealous of us groovy Penguins
JP<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Red Hat getting serious about Opteron 

"Oxford Systems" <oxfordsystems RemoveThis @earthlinkdot.net> wrote in message
news:PE_Eb.6182$wL6.3731@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
 > I wonder if this activity might prod Microserf to get off their duff and
get
 > Windoze 64 for AMD out there instead of -- as rumoured -- waiting around
for
 > Intel to release their own flavor of x86-64?

Microsoft seems to be showing both preferences for some reason. They
recently presented something about AMD64 at a conference in relation to
their Windows Server 2003:

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.microsoft.com/malaysia/events/past/download/winserver/amd.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.microsoft.com/malaysia/events/past/download/winserver/amd.pdf</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Red Hat getting serious about Opteron 

"Rmyers1400" <rmyers1400.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031220145027.14410.00001315@mb-m28.aol.com...
 > It wouldn't just be Linux/Opteron taking off in Intel's offer to Bill that
he
 > will feel unable to refuse. I'm sure they've told him that they've got
the
 > instruction set, and they've got the supporting code for gcc and anything
else
 > required in gnu/linux ready to go for their own 64-bit x86 isa. Take it
or
 > leave it.
 >
 > You're right. It's probably not Intel that Bill is afraid of. It's
gnu/linux.
 > And yes, Oracle would be a big winner, too. Can't you take *some*
pleasure in
 > thinking about how it must completely ruin any kind of holiday Bill and
Steve
 > have planned for themselves?

There's also the possibility that Solaris for Opteron will come out before
Windows for Opteron, despite Windows being announced months ahead of time.

Yousuf Khan<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Red Hat getting serious about Opteron 

"Al Cappizi" <bigal DeleteThis @telenet.net> wrote in message
news:dv2Fb.9306$T2.5396@fe1.columbus.rr.com...
 > I don't think I understand the direction of your reply; as far as I can
 > tell, Linux still hasn't made the big time and I don't think it ever will,
 > it's still full of bugs. As far as AMD, it has always been second to Intel
 > no matter what product it tried to sell. In other words, it hasn't proved
 > yet that it can manufacture better CPU's _overall_ than Intel

Well of course, one wouldn't be expected to understand the direction of a
reply if one is clueless. It's a totally different reference frame, I would
imagine. After Rip Van Winkle awoke, the world looked very different to him
as well. Say hello to 2004.

Yousuf Khan<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Red Hat getting serious about Opteron 

"Oxford Systems" <oxfordsystems.TakeThisOut@earthlinkdot.net> wrote in message
news:PE_Eb.6182$wL6.3731@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
 > I wonder if this activity might prod Microserf to get off their duff and
get
 > Windoze 64 for AMD out there instead of -- as rumoured -- waiting around
for
 > Intel to release their own flavor of x86-64?

Waht I'm somewhat more interested in is what SuSE has done to optimize for
the AMD NUMA implementation, that Red Hat hadn't yet. I would've assumed
that NUMA implementations of Linux are already in existence, and all you
have to do is copy that.

Also SuSE was the weapon of choice for the Cray Red Storm system. I wonder
if the SuSE NUMA takes Black Widow into account separately vs.
Hypertransport vs. local memory too? A sort of 3-level NUMA implementation.
I wonder if people bother with this level of complexity or do they just go,
"this is fast memory, and this is slow memory"?

Yousuf Khan<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Red Hat getting serious about Opteron 

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 20:42:49 GMT, Al Cappizi <bigal.TakeThisOut@telenet.net> wrote:
 >
 > "Carlos Moreno" <moreno_at_mochima_dot_com.TakeThisOut@x.xxx> wrote in message
 > news:Sr_Eb.33949$7S3.507705@weber.videotron.net...
  >>
  >> Well, serious people that want what's best for their IT
  >> infrastructure, for one, should care about this.
  >>
  >> Also, people that are sick of Microsoft and Intel (which
  >> should have a huge overlap with the previous category)
  >> should care about this.
  >>
  >> Carlos
  >> --
 >
 > I don't think I understand the direction of your reply;

Both MS and Intel have, from time to time, used their dominant market
positions to push inferior products in order to solidify their positions or
expand their influence. For those of us in IT this is sometimes frustrating.

 > as far as I can tell, Linux still hasn't made the big time and I don't
 > think it ever will,

I'm not sure what you consider "make the big time" but it's right up there
with MS in IT infrastructure roles as well as embeded apps and coming on
very strong in scientific computing, and specialty apps (render
farms, IC design, etc). Next up is the corporate desktop and then maybe the
home desktop although that's likely to be the slowest.

 > it's still full of bugs.

As is every OS I've ever used but Linux has served me far more reliably than
any MS product ever has. Right now the Linux based dvr in the living room
is recording and playing a video while encoding my Two Towers DVDs so they
can be available on demand. I also have two other machines cooperating on
the encoding process, one of which booted remotely over the network. None
of this software cost a penny and they've been working on this project
continuously since last night without a problem (and none has been rebooted
in 60+ days). My web & email server has been up for over 250 days and it's
little more than a collection of spare parts. Just the cost of Windows
licenses for all the machines I own would be more than the cost of my DVR.

 > As far as AMD, it has always been second to Intel
 > no matter what product it tried to sell.

Maybe in terms of sales volume but they've been about equal to Intel in
terms of quality/technology ever since the Athlon was introduced. More
importantly AMD is THE reason Intel has 3GHz+ P4's available at attractive
prices today.

 > In other words, it hasn't proved
 > yet that it can manufacture better CPU's _overall_ than Intel

So what? I don't buy CPUs _overall_, I buy the ones suite my needs at the
moment. Sometimes that's Intel and sometimes that's AMD but without AMD my
choices wouldn't be anywhere near as good as they are.

--
Ray<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Red Hat getting serious about Opteron