Surveillance equipment

"Paul" <nospam.TakeThisOut@needed.com> wrote in message
news:fb04vc$cns$1@aioe.org...
> me wrote:
>> Got a landlord that I think is snooping in my
>> apartment when I am gone.
reminds me when I use to rent, landlord's 8 year old
kid and dog would be in my place when I got
home...getting snacks from the fridge

xman
 >> Stay informed about: Surveillance equipment 

"me" <me.DeleteThis@notmsn.com> wrote in message news:46d45b7c@news.cuneo2lemon.net...
> Got a landlord that I think is snooping in my apartment when I am gone.
>
> I need a video cam that will record in low light and has a movement on
> sensor or one that can be added to it. Something as small and portable
> as possible; not noisey.
>
> Cost is a factor, would like to get something for under $400.
>
> Can anyone offer some suggestions? Since this will be used for legal
> proceedings, please keep that in mind when suggesting particular
> equipment.
>
> If this is an inappropriate group, please redirect me. Thanks.
>

Some cheaper gear, Google for the expensive stuff;

http://www.geeks.com/products.asp?Cat=VID

Luck;
Ken
 >> Stay informed about: Surveillance equipment 

me wrote:
> Got a landlord that I think is snooping in my apartment when I am gone.
>
> I need a video cam that will record in low light and has a movement on
> sensor or one that can be added to it. Something as small and portable
> as possible; not noisey.
>
> Cost is a factor, would like to get something for under $400.
>
> Can anyone offer some suggestions? Since this will be used for legal
> proceedings, please keep that in mind when suggesting particular
> equipment.
>
> If this is an inappropriate group, please redirect me. Thanks.
>

There are plenty of toys out there. The first one doesn't appear to
have infrared illumination, but maybe I'm mistaken.

V-Gear Auto Zoom Webcam
http://www.crazyaboutgadgets.com/detail.asp?ID=663

The second one is typical of a unit with built-in infrared illumination.
When units are this cheap *make sure* they come with a driver CD,
as it is just about impossible to trace down who makes these. If
you get a product, and then expect to go looking for a driver or
other software for it, you may find the manufacturer has no
"web presence".

Night Vision WebCam
http://crazyaboutgadgets.com/detail.asp?ID=502

For infrared illumination, there are a couple types of standalone illuminators.
One type is "nearly invisible". It uses a heat source, with a filter over
the front to remove most visible wavelengths. When you look at it, you see
a dark red glow. A unit like that might use a couple hundred watts of power
and be sufficient to illuminate a couple parking spots in back of a building.
If placed up high, and protected from rocks, it might be a good solution
for a parking lot.

There are also infrared LED based illuminators. You should be able to look
directly at those, and not see any light. Just like you cannot see light
from your infrared TV remote control. You can include one of those
illuminators in your setup, to provide light 24 hours a day.

http://www.supercircuits.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=432

For example, this one is innocuous looking, and might not be suspected of
being an illuminator. You could run this off a +12V disk drive cable,
for example. Uses 12V at 0.8 amps.

http://www.supercircuits.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3899

For your camera, optics are all important. Good lenses, and knowing how
to use them, makes all the difference. (Zoom and focus help for framing
the shot, and using all the pixels to best advantage.) I own a couple
cameras I got from Supercircuits, and with the lenses I selected, I could
monitor my front door from my hallway. But using the same fixed lenses, if
I wanted to monitor my front yard, the low resolution means a person's
head is only a few pixels high. Hardly good enough for court...

So while there are cameras, you can expect the first one you buy to
be a joke. But it will help you get a handle on just what it would
take to do a good job.

Note that infrared illuminators and color CCDs don't necessarily mix.
The reason is, for photographic work, they put a filter over the CCD,
to remove infrared. That is so that daylight scenes have a natural
appearance. It doesn't mean that a given camera will be blind to infrared
- my color CCD camera can see the infrared LED on my TV remote just fine.
But it does mean that you might need a more powerful illuminator
than would otherwise be necessary. And a lot of advertising copy,
makes no mention of how well the unit responds to infrared, for
surveillance in darkness.

For sensitivity ratings, expect most vendors to stretch the
truth. I have a color CCD and a B&W CCD, and the B&W one can
almost see by full moonlight. (Both have AGC, or automatic gain
control, but the B&W one has a much more sensitive detector.)
The color one is not nearly as good. The thing is, to avoid
detector noise, you need a lot more light than the specs would
suggest. In that regard, my B&W camera would be better suited to
surveillance, even if the results are boring black and white.

So it is a bit of a tricky problem, and you might not get
the gear quite right on the first try. Consider that, before
forking out hundreds of dollars on your first setup. Being
able to "try before you buy", at a store, would make all the
difference in the world. The adverts you see on the "spycam"
sites, are often too good to be true.

A page on "Field of View" for fixed lenses.
http://www.supercircuits.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=103

Webcams, with USB interfaces, are easy to use. There are a number
of surveillance cameras on SuperCircuits, that have 75 ohm video output,
and then you need a frame grabber or a VCR to record the
baseband video output from the camera. Which is not quite as
convenient. Some TV tuner cards have video input connectors,
and my WinTV card is what I use to capture video from my
B&W and color CCD cameras.

Have fun,
Paul
 >> Stay informed about: Surveillance equipment 

"Bernie Dwyer" wrote ...
> me wrote:
>> Got a landlord that I think is snooping in my apartment when I am gone.
>>
>> I need a video cam that will record in low light and has a movement on
>> sensor or one that can be added to it. Something as small and portable
>> as possible; not noisey.
>>
>> Cost is a factor, would like to get something for under $400.
>>
>> Can anyone offer some suggestions? Since this will be used for legal
>> proceedings, please keep that in mind when suggesting particular
>> equipment.
>>
>> If this is an inappropriate group, please redirect me. Thanks.
>
> Get yourself a digital/analog TV capture card, and a webcam. A lot of
> them come with surveillance software now, i.e. the cam transmits images
> to the software which triggers a recording function if enough of the
> image changes, e.g. an empty room which suddenly has a body moving
> around.
>
> Of course, you'll have to leave your computer on all the time, and
> provide enough room light to record a decent image.

Indeed. I've seen videos on Youtube of thieves caught on
an ordinary webcam that the victim left running in his
apartment while he was out. For much less than $100
you could likely get a webcam and motion-detection
video recording software.
 >> Stay informed about: Surveillance equipment 

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley DeleteThis @xp7rt.net> wrote in
news:5jj1t0F3sa80bU1@mid.individual.net:

> "Bernie Dwyer" wrote ...
>> me wrote:
>>> Got a landlord that I think is snooping in my apartment when I am
>>> gone.
>>>
>>> I need a video cam that will record in low light and has a movement
>>> on sensor or one that can be added to it. Something as small and
>>> portable as possible; not noisey.
>>>
>>> Cost is a factor, would like to get something for under $400.
>>>
>>> Can anyone offer some suggestions? Since this will be used for legal
>>> proceedings, please keep that in mind when suggesting particular
>>> equipment.
>>>
>>> If this is an inappropriate group, please redirect me. Thanks.
>>
>> Get yourself a digital/analog TV capture card, and a webcam. A lot of
>> them come with surveillance software now, i.e. the cam transmits
>> images to the software which triggers a recording function if enough
>> of the image changes, e.g. an empty room which suddenly has a body
>> moving around.
>>
>> Of course, you'll have to leave your computer on all the time, and
>> provide enough room light to record a decent image

>
> Indeed. I've seen videos on Youtube of thieves caught on
> an ordinary webcam that the victim left running in his
> apartment while he was out. For much less than $100
> you could likely get a webcam and motion-detection
> video recording software.
>

Thanks to all for their replies. By caught on youtube (pardon my
ignorance) do you mean this could be set up so your connected to that
site and the stream is automatically saved and broadcast? Can that be
done? What's involved in doing so?
 >> Stay informed about: Surveillance equipment 

"me" wrote ...
> Thanks to all for their replies. By caught on youtube (pardon my
> ignorance) do you mean this could be set up so your connected to that
> site and the stream is automatically saved and broadcast? Can that be
> done? What's involved in doing so?

No, Not automatically saved and "broadcast".
That probably would not be advisable. If you
actually caught somebody and put it out on the
internet before the law finished with the case,
you would likely get yourself in more trouble
than the thieves.
 >> Stay informed about: Surveillance equipment 

Bernie Dwyer <b_duibhirz RemoveThis @yahooz.comz.auz> wrote in
news:46D38EC4.FF69CEB5@yahooz.comz.auz:

Seems like most of the replies suggest a webcam. But I need something
that will record directly as I do not have internet connection where I
am living now. And it has to record in low light and on object movement.

I need something that will record to cd or directly to the computer hard
drive. Does that exist either in hardware or hardware + software combo?

Or am I not reading the replies carefully enough? Sorry, I am pretty
ignorant on this topic.



> me wrote:
>>
>> Got a landlord that I think is snooping in my apartment when I am
>> gone.
>>
>> I need a video cam that will record in low light and has a movement
>> on sensor or one that can be added to it. Something as small and
>> portable as possible; not noisey.
>>
>> Cost is a factor, would like to get something for under $400.
>>
>> Can anyone offer some suggestions? Since this will be used for legal
>> proceedings, please keep that in mind when suggesting particular
>> equipment.
>>
>> If this is an inappropriate group, please redirect me. Thanks.
>
> Get yourself a digital/analog TV capture card, and a webcam. A lot of
> them come with surveillance software now, i.e. the cam transmits
> images to the software which triggers a recording function if enough
> of the image changes, e.g. an empty room which suddenly has a body
> moving around.
>
> Of course, you'll have to leave your computer on all the time, and
> provide enough room light to record a decent image.
 >> Stay informed about: Surveillance equipment 

On 29 Aug 2007 13:53:55 +0200, me <me.DeleteThis@notmsn.com> wrote:

>Bernie Dwyer <b_duibhirz.DeleteThis@yahooz.comz.auz> wrote in
>news:46D38EC4.FF69CEB5@yahooz.comz.auz:
>
>Seems like most of the replies suggest a webcam. But I need something
>that will record directly as I do not have internet connection where I
>am living now. And it has to record in low light and on object movement.
>
>I need something that will record to cd or directly to the computer hard
>drive. Does that exist either in hardware or hardware + software combo?
>
>Or am I not reading the replies carefully enough? Sorry, I am pretty
>ignorant on this topic.
>
>

If you want to keep it real simple at almost no cost to you, do this:

Buy 8 hr VHS tapes and put it in a vcr at slp mode.

Get the cheapest videocamera you can get your hands on. It doesnt even need to work as long as the
camera section works.

Connect a long rca cable from the cam to the back of the vcr and record for 8 hours. I did this for
awhile and it worked great. Just lay the camera anywhere, even better if it faces the door entrance.
This way, if the guy notices and leaves, it is already on tape. If the tape is gone, he stole it. It
would be better if you laid the camera down somewhere in the corner where the cable could be hidden.

Tony



>
>> me wrote:
>>>
>>> Got a landlord that I think is snooping in my apartment when I am
>>> gone.
>>>
>>> I need a video cam that will record in low light and has a movement
>>> on sensor or one that can be added to it. Something as small and
>>> portable as possible; not noisey.
>>>
>>> Cost is a factor, would like to get something for under $400.
>>>
>>> Can anyone offer some suggestions? Since this will be used for legal
>>> proceedings, please keep that in mind when suggesting particular
>>> equipment.
>>>
>>> If this is an inappropriate group, please redirect me. Thanks.
>>
>> Get yourself a digital/analog TV capture card, and a webcam. A lot of
>> them come with surveillance software now, i.e. the cam transmits
>> images to the software which triggers a recording function if enough
>> of the image changes, e.g. an empty room which suddenly has a body
>> moving around.
>>
>> Of course, you'll have to leave your computer on all the time, and
>> provide enough room light to record a decent image.
 >> Stay informed about: Surveillance equipment 

"me" wrote ...
> Seems like most of the replies suggest a webcam. But I need something
> that will record directly as I do not have internet connection where I
> am living now.

A "webcam" is a kind of hardware device. You don't HAVE
to connect it to the internet or web. They typically have very
simple lenses (no zoom or focus, etc.) and use USB
connection to your PC. They are also typically quite small
(smaller than a tennis ball) and can be hidden and connected
to your PC with a long USB extension cable.

> And it has to record in low light

Then either get a camera that has low-light capability (some
will make pictures with infrared), or else leave a night-light
or the hall light or something turned on. If it were me, I would
just leave a light on. Much cheaper than trying to get a low-light
camera.

> and on object movement.

You can likely find software for your computer that will
record from a "webcam" when it detects motion. There
are probably some available for free if you are good at
searching. If I wanted it for quasi-legal evidence, I would
be sure to use one that shows the time/date in the frame.

> I need something that will record to cd or directly to the computer hard
> drive. Does that exist either in hardware or hardware + software combo?

The trouble won't be finding them. The trouble will be that
there are so many it will be hard to decide which one to get.

> Or am I not reading the replies carefully enough? Sorry, I am pretty
> ignorant on this topic.

Google is your friend. Look up key words like webcam and
surveilence and motion-detection, etc. etc. etc. There might
even be newsgroups that deal with security and/or survelience?
 >> Stay informed about: Surveillance equipment 

"me" <me RemoveThis @notmsn.com> wrote in message news:46d55e53@news.cuneo2lemon.net...
> Bernie Dwyer <b_duibhirz RemoveThis @yahooz.comz.auz> wrote in
> news:46D38EC4.FF69CEB5@yahooz.comz.auz:
>
> Seems like most of the replies suggest a webcam. But I need something
> that will record directly as I do not have internet connection where I
> am living now. And it has to record in low light and on object movement.
>
> I need something that will record to cd or directly to the computer hard
> drive. Does that exist either in hardware or hardware + software combo?
>
> Or am I not reading the replies carefully enough? Sorry, I am pretty
> ignorant on this topic.


a webcam will do it - it doesnt need to be on the internet to be of use to
you - it can record to your pc.



--
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/
 >> Stay informed about: Surveillance equipment 

me wrote:
> Bernie Dwyer <b_duibhirz DeleteThis @yahooz.comz.auz> wrote in
> news:46D38EC4.FF69CEB5@yahooz.comz.auz:
>
> Seems like most of the replies suggest a webcam. But I need something
> that will record directly as I do not have internet connection where I
> am living now. And it has to record in low light and on object movement.
>
> I need something that will record to cd or directly to the computer hard
> drive. Does that exist either in hardware or hardware + software combo?
>
> Or am I not reading the replies carefully enough? Sorry, I am pretty
> ignorant on this topic.
>

The solutions suggested are based on price. Webcams are the highest
volume, and cover the low dollar range of cameras. (You get what you
pay for.) The SuperCircuits site, with its collection of NTSC video
output cameras, can match on price, but you need a video capture card
to work with those. And the video capture card would need a motion
detection and recording program, to be useful for surveillance.
IP connected cameras (uses Ethernet cable), have a processor inside
them, and are much more expensive. There are even high resolution
Firewire connected cameras, that stream at 50MB/sec or a bit less,
and those would be $1500+. Cameras with even higher resolution probably
have their own digital interconnect standard, and price would be a lesson
in astronomy.

Since you expressed an interest in low cost, then webcam is where
you start. You are more likely to get a good integrated application
package with a webcam.

The cheapest cameras use pinhole lenses. The next cheapest would
have a fixed lens. If you are lucky, some cameras use a C/CS mount
on the front, so you can screw your own lens on. My camera had
that, but I didn't find the mechanical tolerance that good, and
the lens assembly is a loose fit.

"Real" surveillance cameras, have pan/tilt/zoom, and can pan
360 degrees, to look all around the room. A webcam is going
to be pointed at the point of entry, and as long as that is
the only way to get in, that is good enough for logging the
event.

V-Gear Auto Zoom Webcam
http://www.crazyaboutgadgets.com/detail.asp?ID=663

"or even set the system to monitor for motion and record / sound
an alarm if it detects anything"

The USB connected camera, uses a software package that can watch
for motion. It helps if you can download a user manual for the
gear you are about to buy, as sometimes the software packages
are poorly written and documented, and it is hard to tell
what you are getting. I've played with products, where the
motion detection is an entirely separate program, written
by someone else, and it doesn't integrate well with the
rest of the package.

ftp://ftp.vgear.com/user_manual/Bee%20manual_EN_2007.pdf

For devices that offer a "following" capability, generally
that capability only exists at a smaller frame size. When
the device is capturing large full frames, the software doesn't
"follow" the subject. But that should not stop the motion
detection capability. If the camera is downloading 1280x960
frames at 15FPS, that is a lot of data to analyse, and a
strong processor might be needed. The camera driver/utilities
usually do all the grunt-work, and not something in the
camera itself. To get an "intelligent" camera (such as the
TCP/IP cameras that connect via Ethernet and have a
web server inside, for remote viewing), those cameras are
a lot more expensive, and effectively the camera has its
own computer inside for handling AOI, motion, multiple
cameras (chaining) etc.

The infrared illumination is needed, if you suspect the
perpetrator will enter in the dark. If the perp has a bag over
his/her head, then I doubt your captured file is going
to do much good in court. (In my old apartment, all the
keys are on a wall of hooks in the admin office, and multiple
staff members had access.)

Some surveillance packages will even email picture(s) if you
have a reliable TCP/IP connection, which is useful if a
thief is there to steal the computer and potentially take
recorded files with them. The emailed picture might be
all you get, in such a case.

If you don't want to tie up a computer doing stuff like
this, there are also dedicated digital recorders for
NTSC video cameras, like this one. You could plug
this into your broadband router, punch appropriate
holes in the NAT/Firewall, and log in remotely to
see if anything has happened. The recorder should
be securely locked up, so it cannot be stolen on
entry.

https://www.supercircuits.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3752

Paul
 >> Stay informed about: Surveillance equipment 

Paul <nospam DeleteThis @needed.com> wrote in news:fb04vc$cns$1@aioe.org:

> me wrote:
>> Got a landlord that I think is snooping in my apartment when I am
>> gone.
>>

>
> Webcams, with USB interfaces, are easy to use. There are a number
> of surveillance cameras on SuperCircuits, that have 75 ohm video
> output, and then you need a frame grabber or a VCR to record the
> baseband video output from the camera. Which is not quite as
> convenient. Some TV tuner cards have video input connectors,
> and my WinTV card is what I use to capture video from my
> B&W and color CCD cameras.


What is a frame grabber? I don't have a VCR now. Is there a way to
record directly to my computer hard drive or to burn it directly to the
computer cd-rw? Thanks Paul.

>
> Have fun,
> Paul
 >> Stay informed about: Surveillance equipment 

me wrote:
> Paul <nospam.RemoveThis@needed.com> wrote in news:fb04vc$cns$1@aioe.org:
>
>> me wrote:
>>> Got a landlord that I think is snooping in my apartment when I am
>>> gone.
>>>
>
>> Webcams, with USB interfaces, are easy to use. There are a number
>> of surveillance cameras on SuperCircuits, that have 75 ohm video
>> output, and then you need a frame grabber or a VCR to record the
>> baseband video output from the camera. Which is not quite as
>> convenient. Some TV tuner cards have video input connectors,
>> and my WinTV card is what I use to capture video from my
>> B&W and color CCD cameras.
>
>
> What is a frame grabber? I don't have a VCR now. Is there a way to
> record directly to my computer hard drive or to burn it directly to the
> computer cd-rw? Thanks Paul.
>
>> Have fun,
>> Paul
>

This is an example of a TV card.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/15-116-620-06.jpg

That one has a TV tuner module, and the two top connectors are for
a 75 ohm TV antenna and an FM radio antenna input. Capture/frame
grabber cards don't need a TV module, but sometimes you are
effectively getting TV capability for "free".

Below the top two connectors, is a black DIN connector. It would be
suitable for a video camera with a four wire S-video output. S-video
gives a bit better picture, by having separate Y/C output.

Below that, are RCA connectors. You connect a camera with NTSC
composite video to one of those connectors. Presumably, the
other connectors are for audio inputs.

Capture cards like this one, use no compression in hardware, and
simply record the data direct from the camera. More modern cards
offer compression in the card itself, which is useful from a
raw recording perspective, but if you want the software to do
motion detection, it means the data stream has to be
decompressed in software again, and then analysed.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815116626

With my video camera from SuperCircuits, with the NTSC composite
video output, I can connect it to my VCR. I can also connect the
camera to an RCA input jack on my WinTV Go card and record video
to disk. I don't think my WinTV card has motion detection
software, but I could probably find a package somewhere for
less than $100 or even shareware, to do it.

If you had something like a laptop, a USB camera is a much better
choice. The solution might be more portable as well.

The nice thing about the USB camera / web camera concept, is that
it is more likely to come with a software package you can use.
The frame grabber / capture card concept, is also capable of
coming with software, but perhaps not the same effort was put
into the package. There are PCI capture cards that cost $25,
where the software is dismal, and people immediately use
third party packages.

Paul
 >> Stay informed about: Surveillance equipment