White box market share

"Felger Carbon" <fmsfnf.RemoveThis@jfoops.net> wrote in message
news:DdQsb.11579$6c3.5329@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
 > There has been some discussion here lately as to how much PC market
 > share is divided between Dell, HPaq, and white boxes.
 >
 > Now both Dell and HPaq are in the business of selling white boxes:
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12637</font" target="_blank">http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12637</font</a>>
 >
 > Can someone tell me if a Dell white box sale (or HPaq) is credited to
 > Dell's market share or the "white box" market share? Or to both, in
 > which case the total market share will exceed 100%, which should make
 > lotsa marketers happy.

You're kidding, you mean HP is trying this same thing too? Dell started this
about a year or so back, trying to pass off unbranded Dell boxes as
whiteboxes. The standard response from most retailers ranged from
indifference to derision, nobody thinks either of these guys can create a
system at the proper price points that a real whitebox can achieve. Just
because the box is white, doesn't make it a whitebox.

Yousuf Khan<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: White box market share 

"Yousuf Khan" <removethisspam.bjsk90.removethispam.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:PPUsb.2539$YX1.119@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
 >
 > You're kidding, you mean HP is trying this same thing too? Dell
started this
 > about a year or so back, trying to pass off unbranded Dell boxes as
 > whiteboxes. The standard response from most retailers ranged from
 > indifference to derision, nobody thinks either of these guys can
create a
 > system at the proper price points that a real whitebox can achieve.
Just
 > because the box is white, doesn't make it a whitebox.

Yousuf, let me continue my role as devil's advocate:

Any "white box" manufacturer has to make sure that the disparate
elements he assembles are compatible. The mobo has to be compatible
with the drivers and the boards - video etc - that're plugged into the
mobo. The case has to have a proper power supply and adequate cooling.
Assuring these things takes time, money, and expertise.

By buying "white boxes" from Dell or HPaq, all of this research and
development has been done, and is included in the white box price tag.
A small local store with no time, money, or expertise can sell white
boxes that actually work.

This continues my theme that R&D is best kicked upstream as far as
possible. It's inefficient for thousands of retail outlets to perform
this R&D thousands of times, individually. I know you and Robert Myers
disagree with this. I'll continue to provide factual evidence that
supports my point of view. For better or worse .<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: White box market share 

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 00:26:01 GMT, "Felger Carbon" <fmsfnf.RemoveThis@jfoops.net>
wrote:

 >It's inefficient for thousands of retail outlets to perform
 >this R&D thousands of times, individually.

It may be inefficient, but it means that the person talking to you at
the counter actually has some familiarity with the hardware. It is no
more or less efficient than sending auto mechanics to school to learn
how to fix your car. Intel offers classes for OEM's just the way GM
offers classes for car dealers.

If you wanted what you could buy at CompUSA, you could just go to
CompUSA. At CompUSA, you are dealing with a sales clerk. At Dell,
you are dealing with someone who reads from an online database. At a
white box vendor, you are dealing with a stakeholder and a
decisionmaker.

RM<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: White box market share 

"Felger Carbon" <fmsfnf.TakeThisOut@jfoops.net> wrote in message
news:tiVsb.11992$6c3.1535@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
 > Any "white box" manufacturer has to make sure that the disparate
 > elements he assembles are compatible. The mobo has to be compatible
 > with the drivers and the boards - video etc - that're plugged into the
 > mobo. The case has to have a proper power supply and adequate cooling.
 > Assuring these things takes time, money, and expertise.

How much time and money do you think this "R&D" actually takes? Exceedingly
little for a local store. Usually, they throw the boxes together with
"known" quantities, such as they usually put their own favourite video
cards, favourite motherboards, processors, etc., that they themselves are
familiar with. They'll occassionally do a custom job, where a customer
requests a slightly different peripheral than what they've used before and
once they have that little bit of experience with it, then they now have a
new known quantity.

Even when they are selling to businesses and government offices, they are
usually going with very conservative rules of thumb.

 > By buying "white boxes" from Dell or HPaq, all of this research and
 > development has been done, and is included in the white box price tag.
 > A small local store with no time, money, or expertise can sell white
 > boxes that actually work.

I suspect Dell or HP aren't even targeting those types of white box sales.
They are targeting the "minor" OEM, who is selling a few hundred boxes to a
government department. Perhaps they can create a few hundred of these in
their own factories quite quickly compared to the minor OEM. But I don't
think even minor OEMs would buy from these guys, they'd know better than to
accept a contract for more machines than they themselves can build.

 > This continues my theme that R&D is best kicked upstream as far as
 > possible. It's inefficient for thousands of retail outlets to perform
 > this R&D thousands of times, individually. I know you and Robert Myers
 > disagree with this. I'll continue to provide factual evidence that
 > supports my point of view. For better or worse .

Sort of like the way Dell kicked their R&D upstairs?

Yousuf Khan<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: White box market share 

"Yousuf Khan" <removethisspam.bjsk90.removethispam.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:40Xsb.3675$YX1.218@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
 >
 > How much time and money do you think this "R&D" actually takes?
Exceedingly
 > little for a local store. Usually, they throw the boxes together with
 > "known" quantities, such as they usually put their own favourite video
 > cards, favourite motherboards, processors, etc., that they themselves are
 > familiar with. They'll occassionally do a custom job, where a customer
 > requests a slightly different peripheral than what they've used before and
 > once they have that little bit of experience with it, then they now have a
 > new known quantity.

I can tell you have never actually done this. I have - and you are wrong.
If you do what you suggest, you are going to have a support nightmare.

I used to buy from a few suppliers who also built whitebox systems. They
would spend at least two months designing/building/testing before they would
sell a new product. Those that didn't went away in the business real
fast...

 >
 > Even when they are selling to businesses and government offices, they are
 > usually going with very conservative rules of thumb.

Are you speaking from experience, or from whatever orifice happens to be
available at the time?

 >
 > Sort of like the way Dell kicked their R&D upstairs?

Exactly. Just like the motherboard makers kicked most of their R&D
upstairs, both in board design/layout and BIOS design. Funny how it works
that way, even when you don't realize it...

Regards,
Dean


 >
 > Yousuf Khan
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: White box market share