Is a ZEN 300 badly designed only or the FSP is a bad desig..

Dima wrote:
> Hello!
> I bought FSP ZEN 300 fanless PS. It made a crackling sound sometimes,
> which was accompanied with a monitor screen image trembling. The shop
> replaced it with another FSP ZEN 300. The second FSP ZEN 300 makes the
> crackling sound 10 times rarer, but still makes the monitor screen
> image tremble during that time. Is this a ZEN 300 bad design only or
> the FSP is a bad designer and does not notice such "small"
> malfunctions? I can replace the FSP ZEN 300 with FSP 350-60GLN only in
> the shop. Is the FSP 350-60GLN good?
> Best regards,
> Dima
> +79035093892
>

There is no mention of any sound in this review.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article263-page4.html

Reviews here are mixed.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817104902&...esize=1

Based on the symptom description, it sound like a problem on
the primary side. The high voltage side.

Note in the Silentpcreview, that they mention that the computer
case cooling solution, plays a part in the cooling performance
of the PSU. You cannot remove all fans from the computer, and
use a PSU like that. The PSU is relying on the airflow from
the computer case exhaust fan, to give a trickle of air
through the PSU.

The reviews for this Antec Phantom 500 mention a whining sound. So
this may not be a good substitute either.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817103926

Perhaps a Seasonic with a fan, would be a better solution. Some of
those are pretty efficient, meaning the fan does not have to spin
fast to keep it cool.

There are reviews here for a FSP300-60GLN, but this is as close as I
can get to finding a review for a 350-60GLN. This one appears to be
OK.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817104031

Paul
 >> Stay informed about: Is a ZEN 300 badly designed only or the FSP is a bad desig.. 

On Jul 9, 11:44 pm, Paul <nos... RemoveThis @needed.com> wrote:
> Dima wrote:
> > Hello!
> > I bought FSP ZEN 300 fanless PS. It made a crackling sound sometimes,
> > which was accompanied with a monitor screen image trembling. The shop
> > replaced it with another FSP ZEN 300. The second FSP ZEN 300 makes the
> > crackling sound 10 times rarer, but still makes the monitor screen
> > image tremble during that time. Is this a ZEN 300 bad design only or
> > the FSP is a bad designer and does not notice such "small"
> > malfunctions? I can replace the FSP ZEN 300 with FSP 350-60GLN only in
> > the shop. Is the FSP 350-60GLN good?
> > Best regards,
> > Dima
> > +79035093892
>
> There is no mention of any sound in this review.
>
> http://www.silentpcreview.com/article263-page4.html
>
> Reviews here are mixed.http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817104902...
>
> Based on the symptom description, it sound like a problem on
> the primary side. The high voltage side.
>
> Note in the Silentpcreview, that they mention that the computer
> case cooling solution, plays a part in the cooling performance
> of the PSU. You cannot remove all fans from the computer, and
> use a PSU like that. The PSU is relying on the airflow from
> the computer case exhaust fan, to give a trickle of air
> through the PSU.
>
> The reviews for this Antec Phantom 500 mention a whining sound. So
> this may not be a good substitute either.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817103926
>
> Perhaps a Seasonic with a fan, would be a better solution. Some of
> those are pretty efficient, meaning the fan does not have to spin
> fast to keep it cool.
>
> There are reviews here for a FSP300-60GLN, but this is as close as I
> can get to finding a review for a 350-60GLN. This one appears to be
> OK.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817104031
>
> Paul

Thanks Paul for your reply and the links!
I am trying to build a very quiet computer. What is a reason to use a
fanless PSU if I have to use the computer case exhaust fan with it?
The SpeedFan program shows that the highest tempreture (the CPU
tempreture) is never above 50 degrees C. without any case exhaust fan
now. The highest allowed tempreture for a CPU is 80 gedrees C.
Best regards,
Dima
 >> Stay informed about: Is a ZEN 300 badly designed only or the FSP is a bad desig.. 

On Jul 10, 1:49 pm, Paul <nos... DeleteThis @needed.com> wrote:
> Dima wrote:
> > On Jul 9, 11:44 pm, Paul <nos... DeleteThis @needed.com> wrote:
> >> Dima wrote:
> >>> Hello!
> >>> I bought FSP ZEN 300 fanless PS. It made a crackling sound sometimes,
> >>> which was accompanied with a monitor screen image trembling. The shop
> >>> replaced it with another FSP ZEN 300. The second FSP ZEN 300 makes the
> >>> crackling sound 10 times rarer, but still makes the monitor screen
> >>> image tremble during that time. Is this a ZEN 300 bad design only or
> >>> the FSP is a bad designer and does not notice such "small"
> >>> malfunctions? I can replace the FSP ZEN 300 with FSP 350-60GLN only in
> >>> the shop. Is the FSP 350-60GLN good?
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Dima
> >>> +79035093892
> >> There is no mention of any sound in this review.
>
> >>http://www.silentpcreview.com/article263-page4.html
>
> >> Reviews here are mixed.http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817104902...
>
> >> Based on the symptom description, it sound like a problem on
> >> the primary side. The high voltage side.
>
> >> Note in the Silentpcreview, that they mention that the computer
> >> case cooling solution, plays a part in the cooling performance
> >> of the PSU. You cannot remove all fans from the computer, and
> >> use a PSU like that. The PSU is relying on the airflow from
> >> the computer case exhaust fan, to give a trickle of air
> >> through the PSU.
>
> >> The reviews for this Antec Phantom 500 mention a whining sound. So
> >> this may not be a good substitute either.
>
> >>http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817103926
>
> >> Perhaps a Seasonic with a fan, would be a better solution. Some of
> >> those are pretty efficient, meaning the fan does not have to spin
> >> fast to keep it cool.
>
> >> There are reviews here for a FSP300-60GLN, but this is as close as I
> >> can get to finding a review for a 350-60GLN. This one appears to be
> >> OK.
>
> >>http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817104031
>
> >> Paul
>
> > Thanks Paul for your reply and the links!
> > I am trying to build a very quiet computer. What is a reason to use a
> > fanless PSU if I have to use the computer case exhaust fan with it?
> > The SpeedFan program shows that the highest tempreture (the CPU
> > tempreture) is never above 50 degrees C. without any case exhaust fan
> > now. The highest allowed tempreture for a CPU is 80 gedrees C.
> > Best regards,
> > Dima
>
> The key is:
>
> What is the temperature of the hard drive?
>
> There should be some airflow past the hard drive. A single, slow exhaust
> fan, mounted on the back of the case, can provide that airflow. In
> addition, that exhaust fan will also help to cool the power supply.
> There should be an air intake vent, located near the disk drive, so
> it does not overheat. The other components in the computer, can take
> more heat than the disk drive can.
>
> Here are examples of cases that are (mostly) fanless. The use of heatpipes
> is to try to efficiently transfer heat, to the walls of the enclosure. They
> are trying to avoid dumping all the heat, into the air inside the case.
> If you just transfer the heat into the air of the case, then the case
> air temperature will rise. Convection can remove some heat, but there
> are limits to what is practical. And convection requires vents near the
> top of the case, to allow the hot air to escape.
>
> http://www.silentpcreview.com/article302-page1.htmlhttp://www.xbitlabs...m/artic
>
> But note that the manufacturer still recommends the use of a fan, if
> the internal component power, exceeds a certain level. And this is
> while using heat pipes.
>
> http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=154&code=020
>
> "CPUs that require a quiet case fan and ZM-RTB1... "
>
> Of course, it is your computer, and you can do whatever you want
> with it. If you wish to run it without a fan, at least make frequent
> backups of the contents of the hard drive.
>
> Are you going to continue to use the ZEN ?
>
> There are web articles, that compare the noise figure of fans.
> Here is an example.
>
> http://www.silentpcreview.com/article739-page1.html
>
> Paul- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks Paul for your timely reply!
The first FSP ZEN 300 made a very low crackling sound several times a
day for several minutes,
which was accompanied with a slight monitor screen image trembling.
The second FSP ZEN 300 makes the crackling sound about onece in a day,
but still makes the monitor screen image tremble slightly during that
time.
It looks like the PSU accumulates a static electricity that shocks me
slightly if I touch it and my home metal radiator at the same time
once in a while.
Is this normal for a silent PSU? Should I replace it with FSP
350-60GLN in 6 hours for building a quiet PC or get used to the slight
monitor screen image trembling once in a day for several minutes?
The temperature of the hard drive is 53 degees C, which is under its
temperature limit of 60 degrees C.
Best regards,
Dima
 >> Stay informed about: Is a ZEN 300 badly designed only or the FSP is a bad desig.. 

On Jul 10, 3:07 pm, Paul <nos....DeleteThis@needed.com> wrote:
> Dima wrote:
> > On Jul 10, 1:49 pm, Paul <nos....DeleteThis@needed.com> wrote:
> >> Dima wrote:
> >>> On Jul 9, 11:44 pm, Paul <nos....DeleteThis@needed.com> wrote:
> >>>> Dima wrote:
> >>>>> Hello!
> >>>>> I bought FSP ZEN 300 fanless PS. It made a crackling sound sometimes,
> >>>>> which was accompanied with a monitor screen image trembling. The shop
> >>>>> replaced it with another FSP ZEN 300. The second FSP ZEN 300 makes the
> >>>>> crackling sound 10 times rarer, but still makes the monitor screen
> >>>>> image tremble during that time. Is this a ZEN 300 bad design only or
> >>>>> the FSP is a bad designer and does not notice such "small"
> >>>>> malfunctions? I can replace the FSP ZEN 300 with FSP 350-60GLN only in
> >>>>> the shop. Is the FSP 350-60GLN good?
> >>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>> Dima
> >>>>> +79035093892
> >>>> There is no mention of any sound in this review.
> >>>>http://www.silentpcreview.com/article263-page4.html
> >>>> Reviews here are mixed.http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817104902...
> >>>> Based on the symptom description, it sound like a problem on
> >>>> the primary side. The high voltage side.
> >>>> Note in the Silentpcreview, that they mention that the computer
> >>>> case cooling solution, plays a part in the cooling performance
> >>>> of the PSU. You cannot remove all fans from the computer, and
> >>>> use a PSU like that. The PSU is relying on the airflow from
> >>>> the computer case exhaust fan, to give a trickle of air
> >>>> through the PSU.
> >>>> The reviews for this Antec Phantom 500 mention a whining sound. So
> >>>> this may not be a good substitute either.
> >>>>http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817103926
> >>>> Perhaps a Seasonic with a fan, would be a better solution. Some of
> >>>> those are pretty efficient, meaning the fan does not have to spin
> >>>> fast to keep it cool.
> >>>> There are reviews here for a FSP300-60GLN, but this is as close as I
> >>>> can get to finding a review for a 350-60GLN. This one appears to be
> >>>> OK.
> >>>>http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817104031
> >>>> Paul
> >>> Thanks Paul for your reply and the links!
> >>> I am trying to build a very quiet computer. What is a reason to use a
> >>> fanless PSU if I have to use the computer case exhaust fan with it?
> >>> The SpeedFan program shows that the highest tempreture (the CPU
> >>> tempreture) is never above 50 degrees C. without any case exhaust fan
> >>> now. The highest allowed tempreture for a CPU is 80 gedrees C.
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Dima
> >> The key is:
>
> >> What is the temperature of the hard drive?
>
> >> There should be some airflow past the hard drive. A single, slow exhaust
> >> fan, mounted on the back of the case, can provide that airflow. In
> >> addition, that exhaust fan will also help to cool the power supply.
> >> There should be an air intake vent, located near the disk drive, so
> >> it does not overheat. The other components in the computer, can take
> >> more heat than the disk drive can.
>
> >> Here are examples of cases that are (mostly) fanless. The use of heatpipes
> >> is to try to efficiently transfer heat, to the walls of the enclosure. They
> >> are trying to avoid dumping all the heat, into the air inside the case.
> >> If you just transfer the heat into the air of the case, then the case
> >> air temperature will rise. Convection can remove some heat, but there
> >> are limits to what is practical. And convection requires vents near the
> >> top of the case, to allow the hot air to escape.
>
> >>http://www.silentpcreview.com/article302-page1.htmlhttp://www.xbitlab...
>
> >> But note that the manufacturer still recommends the use of a fan, if
> >> the internal component power, exceeds a certain level. And this is
> >> while using heat pipes.
>
> >>http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=154&code=020
>
> >> "CPUs that require a quiet case fan and ZM-RTB1... "
>
> >> Of course, it is your computer, and you can do whatever you want
> >> with it. If you wish to run it without a fan, at least make frequent
> >> backups of the contents of the hard drive.
>
> >> Are you going to continue to use the ZEN ?
>
> >> There are web articles, that compare the noise figure of fans.
> >> Here is an example.
>
> >>http://www.silentpcreview.com/article739-page1.html
>
> >> Paul- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
> > Thanks Paul for your timely reply!
> > The first FSP ZEN 300 made a very low crackling sound several times a
> > day for several minutes,
> > which was accompanied with a slight monitor screen image trembling.
> > The second FSP ZEN 300 makes the crackling sound about onece in a day,
> > but still makes the monitor screen image tremble slightly during that
> > time.
> > It looks like the PSU accumulates a static electricity that shocks me
> > slightly if I touch it and my home metal radiator at the same time
> > once in a while.
> > Is this normal for a silent PSU? Should I replace it with FSP
> > 350-60GLN in 6 hours for building a quiet PC or get used to the slight
> > monitor screen image trembling once in a day for several minutes?
> > The temperature of the hard drive is 53 degees C, which is under its
> > temperature limit of 60 degrees C.
> > Best regards,
> > Dima
>
> Is it really static electricity ? What would generate static electricity
> on a power supply ?
>
> The power supply should have a safety ground. Does your power outlet have
> a safety ground and is it working properly ?
>
> A small amount of leakage current, flows to the safety ground from the
> EMI filter on the AC input side of the supply. If the safety ground is
> not connected to the supply, then the supply and computer chassis can
> deliver a small AC shock. but the shock sensation would exist each time
> you touch the case. With static electricity, the first touch would dissipate
> most of the charge.
>
> I would use the 350-60GLN, based on the possibility it is a more reliable
> supply.
>
> As for the hard drive, the thing that bothers me, is the chart on page 33
> of this document. Hitachi (IBM) places this chart in their documents
> (and Seagate does mention the "wet bulb" temperature in their specs).
> I think it implies the allowed operating temperature is a function of
> relative humidity, but I'm not a specialist in interpreting charts like
> this. The curve on page 33 is why I like to keep my computer case
> temperature low if possible. People working in air conditioned rooms
> should have less trouble, as their R.H. would typically be 40%.
>
> http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/85256AB8006A31E58...
>
> Paul- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks Paul for your helpful replies!
Should I try to use a fan of the 350-60GLN to cool HDDs, by directing
air from front bottom through HDDs to the PSU? An amd Athlon 62 X4600+
will have its own cooler Susurro. I can cover the exhaust case fan
hole and side holes for the air direction and the noise isolation.

My first touch dissipates most of the charge. The shock sensation does
not exist each time I touch a bolt of the case. My power outlet
doesn't have a safety ground.

A higher relative humidity is hotter for live species because the
evaporation of the sweat is reduced. HDDs do not sweat. The higher
relative humidity means more water in the air. More water means higher
heat/thermal conductivity and higher thermal/heat capacity of the air.
The higher heat/thermal conductivity and higher thermal/heat capacity
of the air means that the air takes away heat from HDDs faster. This
contradicts the chart.
Best regards,
Dima
 >> Stay informed about: Is a ZEN 300 badly designed only or the FSP is a bad desig.. 

Dima wrote:
> On Jul 9, 11:44 pm, Paul <nos....RemoveThis@needed.com> wrote:
>> Dima wrote:
>>> Hello!
>>> I bought FSP ZEN 300 fanless PS. It made a crackling sound sometimes,
>>> which was accompanied with a monitor screen image trembling. The shop
>>> replaced it with another FSP ZEN 300. The second FSP ZEN 300 makes the
>>> crackling sound 10 times rarer, but still makes the monitor screen
>>> image tremble during that time. Is this a ZEN 300 bad design only or
>>> the FSP is a bad designer and does not notice such "small"
>>> malfunctions? I can replace the FSP ZEN 300 with FSP 350-60GLN only in
>>> the shop. Is the FSP 350-60GLN good?
>>> Best regards,
>>> Dima
>>> +79035093892
>> There is no mention of any sound in this review.
>>
>> http://www.silentpcreview.com/article263-page4.html
>>
>> Reviews here are mixed.http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817104902...
>>
>> Based on the symptom description, it sound like a problem on
>> the primary side. The high voltage side.
>>
>> Note in the Silentpcreview, that they mention that the computer
>> case cooling solution, plays a part in the cooling performance
>> of the PSU. You cannot remove all fans from the computer, and
>> use a PSU like that. The PSU is relying on the airflow from
>> the computer case exhaust fan, to give a trickle of air
>> through the PSU.
>>
>> The reviews for this Antec Phantom 500 mention a whining sound. So
>> this may not be a good substitute either.
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817103926
>>
>> Perhaps a Seasonic with a fan, would be a better solution. Some of
>> those are pretty efficient, meaning the fan does not have to spin
>> fast to keep it cool.
>>
>> There are reviews here for a FSP300-60GLN, but this is as close as I
>> can get to finding a review for a 350-60GLN. This one appears to be
>> OK.
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817104031
>>
>> Paul
>
> Thanks Paul for your reply and the links!
> I am trying to build a very quiet computer. What is a reason to use a
> fanless PSU if I have to use the computer case exhaust fan with it?
> The SpeedFan program shows that the highest tempreture (the CPU
> tempreture) is never above 50 degrees C. without any case exhaust fan
> now. The highest allowed tempreture for a CPU is 80 gedrees C.
> Best regards,
> Dima
>

The key is:

What is the temperature of the hard drive?

There should be some airflow past the hard drive. A single, slow exhaust
fan, mounted on the back of the case, can provide that airflow. In
addition, that exhaust fan will also help to cool the power supply.
There should be an air intake vent, located near the disk drive, so
it does not overheat. The other components in the computer, can take
more heat than the disk drive can.

Here are examples of cases that are (mostly) fanless. The use of heatpipes
is to try to efficiently transfer heat, to the walls of the enclosure. They
are trying to avoid dumping all the heat, into the air inside the case.
If you just transfer the heat into the air of the case, then the case
air temperature will rise. Convection can remove some heat, but there
are limits to what is practical. And convection requires vents near the
top of the case, to allow the hot air to escape.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article302-page1.html
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/zalman-tnn500af.html

But note that the manufacturer still recommends the use of a fan, if
the internal component power, exceeds a certain level. And this is
while using heat pipes.

http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=154&code=020

"CPUs that require a quiet case fan and ZM-RTB1... "

Of course, it is your computer, and you can do whatever you want
with it. If you wish to run it without a fan, at least make frequent
backups of the contents of the hard drive.

Are you going to continue to use the ZEN ?

There are web articles, that compare the noise figure of fans.
Here is an example.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article739-page1.html

Paul
 >> Stay informed about: Is a ZEN 300 badly designed only or the FSP is a bad desig.. 

Dima wrote:
> On Jul 10, 1:49 pm, Paul <nos... DeleteThis @needed.com> wrote:
>> Dima wrote:
>>> On Jul 9, 11:44 pm, Paul <nos... DeleteThis @needed.com> wrote:
>>>> Dima wrote:
>>>>> Hello!
>>>>> I bought FSP ZEN 300 fanless PS. It made a crackling sound sometimes,
>>>>> which was accompanied with a monitor screen image trembling. The shop
>>>>> replaced it with another FSP ZEN 300. The second FSP ZEN 300 makes the
>>>>> crackling sound 10 times rarer, but still makes the monitor screen
>>>>> image tremble during that time. Is this a ZEN 300 bad design only or
>>>>> the FSP is a bad designer and does not notice such "small"
>>>>> malfunctions? I can replace the FSP ZEN 300 with FSP 350-60GLN only in
>>>>> the shop. Is the FSP 350-60GLN good?
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Dima
>>>>> +79035093892
>>>> There is no mention of any sound in this review.
>>>> http://www.silentpcreview.com/article263-page4.html
>>>> Reviews here are mixed.http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817104902...
>>>> Based on the symptom description, it sound like a problem on
>>>> the primary side. The high voltage side.
>>>> Note in the Silentpcreview, that they mention that the computer
>>>> case cooling solution, plays a part in the cooling performance
>>>> of the PSU. You cannot remove all fans from the computer, and
>>>> use a PSU like that. The PSU is relying on the airflow from
>>>> the computer case exhaust fan, to give a trickle of air
>>>> through the PSU.
>>>> The reviews for this Antec Phantom 500 mention a whining sound. So
>>>> this may not be a good substitute either.
>>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817103926
>>>> Perhaps a Seasonic with a fan, would be a better solution. Some of
>>>> those are pretty efficient, meaning the fan does not have to spin
>>>> fast to keep it cool.
>>>> There are reviews here for a FSP300-60GLN, but this is as close as I
>>>> can get to finding a review for a 350-60GLN. This one appears to be
>>>> OK.
>>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817104031
>>>> Paul
>>> Thanks Paul for your reply and the links!
>>> I am trying to build a very quiet computer. What is a reason to use a
>>> fanless PSU if I have to use the computer case exhaust fan with it?
>>> The SpeedFan program shows that the highest tempreture (the CPU
>>> tempreture) is never above 50 degrees C. without any case exhaust fan
>>> now. The highest allowed tempreture for a CPU is 80 gedrees C.
>>> Best regards,
>>> Dima
>> The key is:
>>
>> What is the temperature of the hard drive?
>>
>> There should be some airflow past the hard drive. A single, slow exhaust
>> fan, mounted on the back of the case, can provide that airflow. In
>> addition, that exhaust fan will also help to cool the power supply.
>> There should be an air intake vent, located near the disk drive, so
>> it does not overheat. The other components in the computer, can take
>> more heat than the disk drive can.
>>
>> Here are examples of cases that are (mostly) fanless. The use of heatpipes
>> is to try to efficiently transfer heat, to the walls of the enclosure. They
>> are trying to avoid dumping all the heat, into the air inside the case.
>> If you just transfer the heat into the air of the case, then the case
>> air temperature will rise. Convection can remove some heat, but there
>> are limits to what is practical. And convection requires vents near the
>> top of the case, to allow the hot air to escape.
>>
>> http://www.silentpcreview.com/article302-page1.htmlhttp://www.xbitlabs...m/artic
>>
>> But note that the manufacturer still recommends the use of a fan, if
>> the internal component power, exceeds a certain level. And this is
>> while using heat pipes.
>>
>> http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=154&code=020
>>
>> "CPUs that require a quiet case fan and ZM-RTB1... "
>>
>> Of course, it is your computer, and you can do whatever you want
>> with it. If you wish to run it without a fan, at least make frequent
>> backups of the contents of the hard drive.
>>
>> Are you going to continue to use the ZEN ?
>>
>> There are web articles, that compare the noise figure of fans.
>> Here is an example.
>>
>> http://www.silentpcreview.com/article739-page1.html
>>
>> Paul- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> Thanks Paul for your timely reply!
> The first FSP ZEN 300 made a very low crackling sound several times a
> day for several minutes,
> which was accompanied with a slight monitor screen image trembling.
> The second FSP ZEN 300 makes the crackling sound about onece in a day,
> but still makes the monitor screen image tremble slightly during that
> time.
> It looks like the PSU accumulates a static electricity that shocks me
> slightly if I touch it and my home metal radiator at the same time
> once in a while.
> Is this normal for a silent PSU? Should I replace it with FSP
> 350-60GLN in 6 hours for building a quiet PC or get used to the slight
> monitor screen image trembling once in a day for several minutes?
> The temperature of the hard drive is 53 degees C, which is under its
> temperature limit of 60 degrees C.
> Best regards,
> Dima
>

Is it really static electricity ? What would generate static electricity
on a power supply ?

The power supply should have a safety ground. Does your power outlet have
a safety ground and is it working properly ?

A small amount of leakage current, flows to the safety ground from the
EMI filter on the AC input side of the supply. If the safety ground is
not connected to the supply, then the supply and computer chassis can
deliver a small AC shock. but the shock sensation would exist each time
you touch the case. With static electricity, the first touch would dissipate
most of the charge.

I would use the 350-60GLN, based on the possibility it is a more reliable
supply.

As for the hard drive, the thing that bothers me, is the chart on page 33
of this document. Hitachi (IBM) places this chart in their documents
(and Seagate does mention the "wet bulb" temperature in their specs).
I think it implies the allowed operating temperature is a function of
relative humidity, but I'm not a specialist in interpreting charts like
this. The curve on page 33 is why I like to keep my computer case
temperature low if possible. People working in air conditioned rooms
should have less trouble, as their R.H. would typically be 40%.

http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/85256AB8006A31E587...A7A0069

Paul
 >> Stay informed about: Is a ZEN 300 badly designed only or the FSP is a bad desig.. 

On Jul 10, 3:07 pm, Paul <nos....TakeThisOut@needed.com> wrote:
> Dima wrote:
> > On Jul 10, 1:49 pm, Paul <nos....TakeThisOut@needed.com> wrote:
> >> Dima wrote:
> >>> On Jul 9, 11:44 pm, Paul <nos....TakeThisOut@needed.com> wrote:
> >>>> Dima wrote:
> >>>>> Hello!
> >>>>> I bought FSP ZEN 300 fanless PS. It made a crackling sound sometimes,
> >>>>> which was accompanied with a monitor screen image trembling. The shop
> >>>>> replaced it with another FSP ZEN 300. The second FSP ZEN 300 makes the
> >>>>> crackling sound 10 times rarer, but still makes the monitor screen
> >>>>> image tremble during that time. Is this a ZEN 300 bad design only or
> >>>>> the FSP is a bad designer and does not notice such "small"
> >>>>> malfunctions? I can replace the FSP ZEN 300 with FSP 350-60GLN only in
> >>>>> the shop. Is the FSP 350-60GLN good?
> >>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>> Dima
> >>>>> +79035093892
> >>>> There is no mention of any sound in this review.
> >>>>http://www.silentpcreview.com/article263-page4.html
> >>>> Reviews here are mixed.http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817104902...
> >>>> Based on the symptom description, it sound like a problem on
> >>>> the primary side. The high voltage side.
> >>>> Note in the Silentpcreview, that they mention that the computer
> >>>> case cooling solution, plays a part in the cooling performance
> >>>> of the PSU. You cannot remove all fans from the computer, and
> >>>> use a PSU like that. The PSU is relying on the airflow from
> >>>> the computer case exhaust fan, to give a trickle of air
> >>>> through the PSU.
> >>>> The reviews for this Antec Phantom 500 mention a whining sound. So
> >>>> this may not be a good substitute either.
> >>>>http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817103926
> >>>> Perhaps a Seasonic with a fan, would be a better solution. Some of
> >>>> those are pretty efficient, meaning the fan does not have to spin
> >>>> fast to keep it cool.
> >>>> There are reviews here for a FSP300-60GLN, but this is as close as I
> >>>> can get to finding a review for a 350-60GLN. This one appears to be
> >>>> OK.
> >>>>http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817104031
> >>>> Paul
> >>> Thanks Paul for your reply and the links!
> >>> I am trying to build a very quiet computer. What is a reason to use a
> >>> fanless PSU if I have to use the computer case exhaust fan with it?
> >>> The SpeedFan program shows that the highest tempreture (the CPU
> >>> tempreture) is never above 50 degrees C. without any case exhaust fan
> >>> now. The highest allowed tempreture for a CPU is 80 gedrees C.
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Dima
> >> The key is:
>
> >> What is the temperature of the hard drive?
>
> >> There should be some airflow past the hard drive. A single, slow exhaust
> >> fan, mounted on the back of the case, can provide that airflow. In
> >> addition, that exhaust fan will also help to cool the power supply.
> >> There should be an air intake vent, located near the disk drive, so
> >> it does not overheat. The other components in the computer, can take
> >> more heat than the disk drive can.
>
> >> Here are examples of cases that are (mostly) fanless. The use of heatpipes
> >> is to try to efficiently transfer heat, to the walls of the enclosure. They
> >> are trying to avoid dumping all the heat, into the air inside the case.
> >> If you just transfer the heat into the air of the case, then the case
> >> air temperature will rise. Convection can remove some heat, but there
> >> are limits to what is practical. And convection requires vents near the
> >> top of the case, to allow the hot air to escape.
>
> >>http://www.silentpcreview.com/article302-page1.htmlhttp://www.xbitlab...
>
> >> But note that the manufacturer still recommends the use of a fan, if
> >> the internal component power, exceeds a certain level. And this is
> >> while using heat pipes.
>
> >>http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=154&code=020
>
> >> "CPUs that require a quiet case fan and ZM-RTB1... "
>
> >> Of course, it is your computer, and you can do whatever you want
> >> with it. If you wish to run it without a fan, at least make frequent
> >> backups of the contents of the hard drive.
>
> >> Are you going to continue to use the ZEN ?
>
> >> There are web articles, that compare the noise figure of fans.
> >> Here is an example.
>
> >>http://www.silentpcreview.com/article739-page1.html
>
> >> Paul- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
> > Thanks Paul for your timely reply!
> > The first FSP ZEN 300 made a very low crackling sound several times a
> > day for several minutes,
> > which was accompanied with a slight monitor screen image trembling.
> > The second FSP ZEN 300 makes the crackling sound about onece in a day,
> > but still makes the monitor screen image tremble slightly during that
> > time.
> > It looks like the PSU accumulates a static electricity that shocks me
> > slightly if I touch it and my home metal radiator at the same time
> > once in a while.
> > Is this normal for a silent PSU? Should I replace it with FSP
> > 350-60GLN in 6 hours for building a quiet PC or get used to the slight
> > monitor screen image trembling once in a day for several minutes?
> > The temperature of the hard drive is 53 degees C, which is under its
> > temperature limit of 60 degrees C.
> > Best regards,
> > Dima
>
> Is it really static electricity ? What would generate static electricity
> on a power supply ?
>
> The power supply should have a safety ground. Does your power outlet have
> a safety ground and is it working properly ?
>
> A small amount of leakage current, flows to the safety ground from the
> EMI filter on the AC input side of the supply. If the safety ground is
> not connected to the supply, then the supply and computer chassis can
> deliver a small AC shock. but the shock sensation would exist each time
> you touch the case. With static electricity, the first touch would dissipate
> most of the charge.
>
> I would use the 350-60GLN, based on the possibility it is a more reliable
> supply.
>
> As for the hard drive, the thing that bothers me, is the chart on page 33
> of this document. Hitachi (IBM) places this chart in their documents
> (and Seagate does mention the "wet bulb" temperature in their specs).
> I think it implies the allowed operating temperature is a function of
> relative humidity, but I'm not a specialist in interpreting charts like
> this. The curve on page 33 is why I like to keep my computer case
> temperature low if possible. People working in air conditioned rooms
> should have less trouble, as their R.H. would typically be 40%.
>
> http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/85256AB8006A31E58...
>
> Paul- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hello All!
I replaced FSP ZEN for FSP 350-60GLN. Now I regret about this. I hear
murmur and whining of the motor clearly. The murmur is of the same
level and character as the murmur of my old LG FLATRON 795FT Plus.
Best regards,
Dima
 >> Stay informed about: Is a ZEN 300 badly designed only or the FSP is a bad desig.. 

On Jul 10, 3:07 pm, Paul <nos... DeleteThis @needed.com> wrote:
> Dima wrote:
> > On Jul 10, 1:49 pm, Paul <nos... DeleteThis @needed.com> wrote:
> >> Dima wrote:
> >>> On Jul 9, 11:44 pm, Paul <nos... DeleteThis @needed.com> wrote:
> >>>> Dima wrote:
> >>>>> Hello!
> >>>>> I bought FSP ZEN 300 fanless PS. It made a crackling sound sometimes,
> >>>>> which was accompanied with a monitor screen image trembling. The shop
> >>>>> replaced it with another FSP ZEN 300. The second FSP ZEN 300 makes the
> >>>>> crackling sound 10 times rarer, but still makes the monitor screen
> >>>>> image tremble during that time. Is this a ZEN 300 bad design only or
> >>>>> the FSP is a bad designer and does not notice such "small"
> >>>>> malfunctions? I can replace the FSP ZEN 300 with FSP 350-60GLN only in
> >>>>> the shop. Is the FSP 350-60GLN good?
> >>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>> Dima
> >>>>> +79035093892
> >>>> There is no mention of any sound in this review.
> >>>>http://www.silentpcreview.com/article263-page4.html
> >>>> Reviews here are mixed.http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817104902...
> >>>> Based on the symptom description, it sound like a problem on
> >>>> the primary side. The high voltage side.
> >>>> Note in the Silentpcreview, that they mention that the computer
> >>>> case cooling solution, plays a part in the cooling performance
> >>>> of the PSU. You cannot remove all fans from the computer, and
> >>>> use a PSU like that. The PSU is relying on the airflow from
> >>>> the computer case exhaust fan, to give a trickle of air
> >>>> through the PSU.
> >>>> The reviews for this Antec Phantom 500 mention a whining sound. So
> >>>> this may not be a good substitute either.
> >>>>http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817103926
> >>>> Perhaps a Seasonic with a fan, would be a better solution. Some of
> >>>> those are pretty efficient, meaning the fan does not have to spin
> >>>> fast to keep it cool.
> >>>> There are reviews here for a FSP300-60GLN, but this is as close as I
> >>>> can get to finding a review for a 350-60GLN. This one appears to be
> >>>> OK.
> >>>>http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817104031
> >>>> Paul
> >>> Thanks Paul for your reply and the links!
> >>> I am trying to build a very quiet computer. What is a reason to use a
> >>> fanless PSU if I have to use the computer case exhaust fan with it?
> >>> The SpeedFan program shows that the highest tempreture (the CPU
> >>> tempreture) is never above 50 degrees C. without any case exhaust fan
> >>> now. The highest allowed tempreture for a CPU is 80 gedrees C.
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Dima
> >> The key is:
>
> >> What is the temperature of the hard drive?
>
> >> There should be some airflow past the hard drive. A single, slow exhaust
> >> fan, mounted on the back of the case, can provide that airflow. In
> >> addition, that exhaust fan will also help to cool the power supply.
> >> There should be an air intake vent, located near the disk drive, so
> >> it does not overheat. The other components in the computer, can take
> >> more heat than the disk drive can.
>
> >> Here are examples of cases that are (mostly) fanless. The use of heatpipes
> >> is to try to efficiently transfer heat, to the walls of the enclosure. They
> >> are trying to avoid dumping all the heat, into the air inside the case.
> >> If you just transfer the heat into the air of the case, then the case
> >> air temperature will rise. Convection can remove some heat, but there
> >> are limits to what is practical. And convection requires vents near the
> >> top of the case, to allow the hot air to escape.
>
> >>http://www.silentpcreview.com/article302-page1.htmlhttp://www.xbitlab...
>
> >> But note that the manufacturer still recommends the use of a fan, if
> >> the internal component power, exceeds a certain level. And this is
> >> while using heat pipes.
>
> >>http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=154&code=020
>
> >> "CPUs that require a quiet case fan and ZM-RTB1... "
>
> >> Of course, it is your computer, and you can do whatever you want
> >> with it. If you wish to run it without a fan, at least make frequent
> >> backups of the contents of the hard drive.
>
> >> Are you going to continue to use the ZEN ?
>
> >> There are web articles, that compare the noise figure of fans.
> >> Here is an example.
>
> >>http://www.silentpcreview.com/article739-page1.html
>
> >> Paul- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
> > Thanks Paul for your timely reply!
> > The first FSP ZEN 300 made a very low crackling sound several times a
> > day for several minutes,
> > which was accompanied with a slight monitor screen image trembling.
> > The second FSP ZEN 300 makes the crackling sound about onece in a day,
> > but still makes the monitor screen image tremble slightly during that
> > time.
> > It looks like the PSU accumulates a static electricity that shocks me
> > slightly if I touch it and my home metal radiator at the same time
> > once in a while.
> > Is this normal for a silent PSU? Should I replace it with FSP
> > 350-60GLN in 6 hours for building a quiet PC or get used to the slight
> > monitor screen image trembling once in a day for several minutes?
> > The temperature of the hard drive is 53 degees C, which is under its
> > temperature limit of 60 degrees C.
> > Best regards,
> > Dima
>
> Is it really static electricity ? What would generate static electricity
> on a power supply ?
>
> The power supply should have a safety ground. Does your power outlet have
> a safety ground and is it working properly ?
>
> A small amount of leakage current, flows to the safety ground from the
> EMI filter on the AC input side of the supply. If the safety ground is
> not connected to the supply, then the supply and computer chassis can
> deliver a small AC shock. but the shock sensation would exist each time
> you touch the case. With static electricity, the first touch would dissipate
> most of the charge.
>
> I would use the 350-60GLN, based on the possibility it is a more reliable
> supply.
>
> As for the hard drive, the thing that bothers me, is the chart on page 33
> of this document. Hitachi (IBM) places this chart in their documents
> (and Seagate does mention the "wet bulb" temperature in their specs).
> I think it implies the allowed operating temperature is a function of
> relative humidity, but I'm not a specialist in interpreting charts like
> this. The curve on page 33 is why I like to keep my computer case
> temperature low if possible. People working in air conditioned rooms
> should have less trouble, as their R.H. would typically be 40%.
>
> http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/85256AB8006A31E58...
>
> Paul- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hello everybody!
Is Thermaltake Purepower RX 400 quiter than FSP 350-60GLN with the
Protechnic fan on a load lower than 350 W?
Best regards,
Dima
 >> Stay informed about: Is a ZEN 300 badly designed only or the FSP is a bad desig.. 

Dima wrote:

>
> Hello everybody!
> Is Thermaltake Purepower RX 400 quiter than FSP 350-60GLN with the
> Protechnic fan on a load lower than 350 W?
> Best regards,
> Dima
>

You need to find a review to decide that. When I looked on Newegg, there
were six models of Thermaltake listed, but no 400W one was there. Otherwise,
you could use the review comments on Newegg, to determine how noisy it is.
Or how reliable Thermaltake products are.

Paul
 >> Stay informed about: Is a ZEN 300 badly designed only or the FSP is a bad desig.. 

On Jul 16, 8:31 pm, Paul <nos....DeleteThis@needed.com> wrote:
> Dima wrote:
>
> > Hello everybody!
> > Is Thermaltake Purepower RX 400 quiter than FSP 350-60GLN with the
> > Protechnic fan on a load lower than 350 W?
> > Best regards,
> > Dima
>
> You need to find a review to decide that. When I looked on Newegg, there
> were six models of Thermaltake listed, but no 400W one was there. Otherwise,
> you could use the review comments on Newegg, to determine how noisy it is.
> Or how reliable Thermaltake products are.
>
> Paul
Thanks Paul!
 >> Stay informed about: Is a ZEN 300 badly designed only or the FSP is a bad desig..