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External
Since: Aug 09, 2007
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:24 pm
Post subject: boot from "USB Device"
Archived from groups: comp>sys>ibm>pc>hardware>storage, others (more info?)
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Virtually all of Dell's current PCs include "USB Device"
as a bootable device type in their BIOSs' Boot Sequence
of device types. Here is the setup specs for Dell's XPS 420
desktop:
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/xps420/en/OM/HTML/append...htm#wp1
Check out the Option Settings under the "Boot Sequence"
section. It refers to "USB Device" as a "memory device",
not a "storage device". And when I explicitly asked Dell's
Tech Support whether that would include USB hard drives,
the answer was "No". Would someone here tell why the
Dell PCs can boot from USB flash drives and not from
USB hard drives?
*TimDaniels* |
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External
Since: Jan 02, 2007
Posts: 37
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:15 pm
Post subject: Re: boot from "USB Device" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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A boot floppy is assigned BIOS unit 00h, and hard disk (partitionable) is unit 80h.
These numbers are coded into the MBR (80) and OS boot sector (00 or 80).
To find out which, boot DOS from non-USB and check the drive is assigned A/B or C+.
If Dell has USB floppy support, it will not work if the disk has an MBR.
Also, there are at least three classes of USB storage device,
and the BIOS probably only implements some of them (floppy most common).
"Timothy Daniels" <SpamBucket.RemoveThis@NoSpamPlease.biz> wrote in message
news:47a22e39$0$8634$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Virtually all of Dell's current PCs include "USB Device"
> as a bootable device type in their BIOSs' Boot Sequence
> of device types. Here is the setup specs for Dell's XPS 420
> desktop:
> http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/xps420/en/OM/HTML/append...htm#wp1
>
> Check out the Option Settings under the "Boot Sequence"
> section. It refers to "USB Device" as a "memory device",
> not a "storage device". And when I explicitly asked Dell's
> Tech Support whether that would include USB hard drives,
> the answer was "No". Would someone here tell why the
> Dell PCs can boot from USB flash drives and not from
> USB hard drives?
> |
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External
Since: Dec 31, 2006
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:19 pm
Post subject: Re: boot from "USB Device" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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As I stated earlier, it all depends on the drivers one finds on the USB boot
medium. A USB floppy boots OK because the BIOS knows how to handle it. A USB
stick or hard drive will only boot OK if it has the right drivers for the right
operating system on the boot medium in addition to the boot sector and and
whatever OS files are needed... Ben Myers
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:24:07 -0800, "Timothy Daniels"
<SpamBucket DeleteThis @NoSpamPlease.biz> wrote:
>Virtually all of Dell's current PCs include "USB Device"
>as a bootable device type in their BIOSs' Boot Sequence
>of device types. Here is the setup specs for Dell's XPS 420
>desktop:
>http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/xps420/en/OM/HTML/appendix.htm#wp1054035
>
>Check out the Option Settings under the "Boot Sequence"
>section. It refers to "USB Device" as a "memory device",
>not a "storage device". And when I explicitly asked Dell's
>Tech Support whether that would include USB hard drives,
>the answer was "No". Would someone here tell why the
>Dell PCs can boot from USB flash drives and not from
>USB hard drives?
>
>*TimDaniels*
> >> Stay informed about: boot from "USB Device" |
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External
Since: Jan 31, 2008
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:19 pm
Post subject: Re: boot from "USB Device" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Ben Myers" <ben_myers_spam_me_not RemoveThis @charter.net> wrote in message
news:h8p4q3hlaj29u2v7b17faf9sap38qub3tm@4ax.com...
> As I stated earlier, it all depends on the drivers one finds on the USB
> boot
> medium. A USB floppy boots OK because the BIOS knows how to handle it.
> A USB
> stick or hard drive will only boot OK if it has the right drivers for the
> right
> operating system on the boot medium in addition to the boot sector and and
> whatever OS files are needed... Ben Myers
>
>
The only way I manually was able to get a USB flash drive to become bootable
w/o using a utility was to partition/format it as a FAT16 partition and then
sys the flash drive being sure to include msdos.sys.
Worked like a charm.
I have not make extreme attempts to make an external HDD bootable, but would
like to do so if I had the time.....
Stew >> Stay informed about: boot from "USB Device" |
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External
Since: Aug 09, 2007
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:53 pm
Post subject: Re: boot from "USB Device" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"S.Lewis" wrote:
> The only way I manually was able to get a USB flash drive
> to become bootable w/o using a utility was to partition/format
> it as a FAT16 partition and then sys the flash drive being sure
> to include msdos.sys.
>
> Worked like a charm.
What does it mean to "sys the flash drive"?
*TimDaniels* >> Stay informed about: boot from "USB Device" |
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External
Since: Sep 10, 2005
Posts: 125
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:29 am
Post subject: Re: boot from "USB Device" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:24:07 -0800, "Timothy Daniels"
<SpamBucket.DeleteThis@NoSpamPlease.biz> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>Virtually all of Dell's current PCs include "USB Device"
>as a bootable device type in their BIOSs' Boot Sequence
>of device types. Here is the setup specs for Dell's XPS 420
>desktop:
>http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/xps420/en/OM/HTML/appendix.htm#wp1054035
>
>Check out the Option Settings under the "Boot Sequence"
>section. It refers to "USB Device" as a "memory device",
>not a "storage device". And when I explicitly asked Dell's
>Tech Support whether that would include USB hard drives,
>the answer was "No". Would someone here tell why the
>Dell PCs can boot from USB flash drives and not from
>USB hard drives?
>
>*TimDaniels*
Could it be that the drive has to be formatted as a "super floppy", ie
no partition table, just a boot sector?
Try Fdisk-ing and reformating your flash drive. I suspect it will fail
to boot after you do this.
- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. >> Stay informed about: boot from "USB Device" |
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External
Since: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 1692
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:29 am
Post subject: Re: boot from "USB Device" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Franc Zabkar <fzabkar.TakeThisOut@iinternode.on.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:24:07 -0800, "Timothy Daniels"
> <SpamBucket.TakeThisOut@NoSpamPlease.biz> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>>Virtually all of Dell's current PCs include "USB Device"
>>as a bootable device type in their BIOSs' Boot Sequence
>>of device types. Here is the setup specs for Dell's XPS 420
>>desktop:
>>http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/xps420/en/OM/HTML/appendix.htm#wp1054035
>>
>>Check out the Option Settings under the "Boot Sequence"
>>section. It refers to "USB Device" as a "memory device",
>>not a "storage device". And when I explicitly asked Dell's
>>Tech Support whether that would include USB hard drives,
>>the answer was "No". Would someone here tell why the
>>Dell PCs can boot from USB flash drives and not from
>>USB hard drives?
>>
>>*TimDaniels*
> Could it be that the drive has to be formatted as a "super floppy", ie
> no partition table, just a boot sector?
> Try Fdisk-ing and reformating your flash drive. I suspect it will fail
> to boot after you do this.
Probably. Apart from that, USB disk and USB flash uses the
same command set, i.e. if one is bootable, then so is the other.
Arno >> Stay informed about: boot from "USB Device" |
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External
Since: Jan 02, 2007
Posts: 37
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:11 am
Post subject: Re: boot from "USB Device" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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It is easier to get bootpart and run it under 2K/XP to build a DOS boot sector.
Beside the other reasons I gave for USB boot being difficult,
the CHS geometry in the MBR and boot sector have to match those of the BIOS,
which is not likely on most USB flash devices I've looked at.
"Timothy Daniels" <SpamBucket RemoveThis @NoSpamPlease.biz> wrote in message
news:47a2b39b$0$17340$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> What does it mean to "sys the flash drive"?
>
> *TimDaniels*
> >> Stay informed about: boot from "USB Device" |
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External
Since: Feb 01, 2006
Posts: 1570
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:54 pm
Post subject: Re: boot from "USB Device" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Timothy Daniels <SpamBucket.TakeThisOut@NoSpamPlease.biz> wrote:
> "S.Lewis" wrote:
>> The only way I manually was able to get a USB flash drive
>> to become bootable w/o using a utility was to partition/format
>> it as a FAT16 partition and then sys the flash drive being sure
>> to include msdos.sys.
>>
>> Worked like a charm.
>
>
> What does it mean to "sys the flash drive"?
The sys dos command puts the basic dos boot files on the drive. >> Stay informed about: boot from "USB Device" |
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External
Since: Jan 31, 2008
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:54 pm
Post subject: Re: boot from "USB Device" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:60g51qF1p9np1U1@mid.individual.net...
> Timothy Daniels <SpamBucket RemoveThis @NoSpamPlease.biz> wrote:
>> "S.Lewis" wrote:
>>> The only way I manually was able to get a USB flash drive
>>> to become bootable w/o using a utility was to partition/format
>>> it as a FAT16 partition and then sys the flash drive being sure
>>> to include msdos.sys.
>>>
>>> Worked like a charm.
>>
>>
>> What does it mean to "sys the flash drive"?
>
> The sys dos command puts the basic dos boot files on the drive.
>
Yep. And the way I did it was kind of clumsy. I actually had to disable all
other bootable drives/network in BIOS, then boot to a modified Win95 floppy.
Under those conditions, the system recognized the flash drive volume (256mb)
just as it would a fixed drive. FDISK, format, sys.
Not positive, but I believe I then re-enabled all the other drives in BIOS,
but could still choose to F12 and boot from the flash drive. (Dimension
8300) >> Stay informed about: boot from "USB Device" |
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External
Since: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Post subject: Re: boot from "USB Device" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Eric Gisin" <gisin DeleteThis @uniserve.com> wrote in message
news:13q6lq7lva34812@corp.supernews.com...
> It is easier to get bootpart and run it under 2K/XP to build a DOS boot
> sector.
>
> Beside the other reasons I gave for USB boot being difficult,
> the CHS geometry in the MBR and boot sector have to match those of the
> BIOS,
> which is not likely on most USB flash devices I've looked at.
Could you please explain further why Canadian flash devices are unlikely to
have a cheese geometry in their moobers which match those in their
biospheres? And I have a nice pair of Canadian boots which aren't in the
least bit difficult. >> Stay informed about: boot from "USB Device" |
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External
Since: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Post subject: Re: boot from "USB Device" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Taken wrote:
> "Eric Gisin" <gisin DeleteThis @uniserve.com> wrote in message
> news:13q6lq7lva34812@corp.supernews.com...
>> It is easier to get bootpart and run it under 2K/XP to build a DOS boot
>> sector.
>>
>> Beside the other reasons I gave for USB boot being difficult,
>> the CHS geometry in the MBR and boot sector have to match those of the
>> BIOS,
>> which is not likely on most USB flash devices I've looked at.
>
> Could you please explain further why Canadian flash devices are unlikely to
> have a cheese geometry in their moobers which match those in their
> biospheres? And I have a nice pair of Canadian boots which aren't in the
> least bit difficult.
I give up! This thread has evolved (drifted?) completely beyond my ken. >> Stay informed about: boot from "USB Device" |
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External
Since: Dec 31, 2006
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Post subject: Re: boot from "USB Device" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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I didn't see anything posted by Ken... Ben Myers
On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:14:35 -0500, Tony Harding <ToHard DeleteThis @nowhere.org> wrote:
>Taken wrote:
>> "Eric Gisin" <gisin DeleteThis @uniserve.com> wrote in message
>> news:13q6lq7lva34812@corp.supernews.com...
>>> It is easier to get bootpart and run it under 2K/XP to build a DOS boot
>>> sector.
>>>
>>> Beside the other reasons I gave for USB boot being difficult,
>>> the CHS geometry in the MBR and boot sector have to match those of the
>>> BIOS,
>>> which is not likely on most USB flash devices I've looked at.
>>
>> Could you please explain further why Canadian flash devices are unlikely to
>> have a cheese geometry in their moobers which match those in their
>> biospheres? And I have a nice pair of Canadian boots which aren't in the
>> least bit difficult.
>
>I give up! This thread has evolved (drifted?) completely beyond my ken. >> Stay informed about: boot from "USB Device" |
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External
Since: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:17 pm
Post subject: Re: boot from "USB Device" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Ben Myers" <ben_myers_spam_me_not DeleteThis @charter.net> wrote in message
news:ed57q31rrd9kkfe1iv8lta8isofljcqkni@4ax.com...
>
> On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:14:35 -0500, Tony Harding <ToHard DeleteThis @nowhere.org>
> wrote:
>
>>Taken wrote:
>>> "Eric Gisin" <gisin DeleteThis @uniserve.com> wrote in message
>>> news:13q6lq7lva34812@corp.supernews.com...
>>>> It is easier to get bootpart and run it under 2K/XP to build a DOS boot
>>>> sector.
>>>>
>>>> Beside the other reasons I gave for USB boot being difficult,
>>>> the CHS geometry in the MBR and boot sector have to match those of the
>>>> BIOS,
>>>> which is not likely on most USB flash devices I've looked at.
>>>
>>> Could you please explain further why Canadian flash devices are unlikely
>>> to
>>> have a cheese geometry in their moobers which match those in their
>>> biospheres? And I have a nice pair of Canadian boots which aren't in the
>>> least bit difficult.
>>
>>I give up! This thread has evolved (drifted?) completely beyond my ken.
>
>I didn't see anything posted by Ken... Ben Myers
A shame, I hear Ken knows a thing or two about cheese geometries. >> Stay informed about: boot from "USB Device" |
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External
Since: Dec 31, 2006
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:20 pm
Post subject: Re: boot from "USB Device" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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And posting as "Taken", maybe you are Ken? As in Ta Ken?
On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 22:17:51 -0000, "Taken" <me DeleteThis @privacy.net> wrote:
>"Ben Myers" <ben_myers_spam_me_not DeleteThis @charter.net> wrote in message
>news:ed57q31rrd9kkfe1iv8lta8isofljcqkni@4ax.com...
>>
>> On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:14:35 -0500, Tony Harding <ToHard DeleteThis @nowhere.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Taken wrote:
>>>> "Eric Gisin" <gisin DeleteThis @uniserve.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:13q6lq7lva34812@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>> It is easier to get bootpart and run it under 2K/XP to build a DOS boot
>>>>> sector.
>>>>>
>>>>> Beside the other reasons I gave for USB boot being difficult,
>>>>> the CHS geometry in the MBR and boot sector have to match those of the
>>>>> BIOS,
>>>>> which is not likely on most USB flash devices I've looked at.
>>>>
>>>> Could you please explain further why Canadian flash devices are unlikely
>>>> to
>>>> have a cheese geometry in their moobers which match those in their
>>>> biospheres? And I have a nice pair of Canadian boots which aren't in the
>>>> least bit difficult.
>>>
>>>I give up! This thread has evolved (drifted?) completely beyond my ken.
>>
>>I didn't see anything posted by Ken... Ben Myers
>
>A shame, I hear Ken knows a thing or two about cheese geometries.
> >> Stay informed about: boot from "USB Device" |
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