drive with read-only dip switch

ivowel <ivowel RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:

> I recall that many, many years ago, there were PATA drives that
> had a dip switch setting that prevented all writing to the drive.

Nope.

> In light of so many novel security issues, I miss this very old feature.

You can get the same result by unplugging the drive.

> Are there any drives that still have such a feature?

Nope.

> (SATA preferred, but I would live with PATA.)

> (PS: No, this must not be software settable. This would defeat my
> intent. It must only be hardware settable, so that changes can only
> be made if I am physically at the hard drive and insert the switch.
> Interestingly, this should be something that should be very easy to
> implement for drive manufacturers.)

Yes, but there are much better ways to protect the contents of a drive.
 >> Stay informed about: drive with read-only dip switch 

Previously ivowel <ivowel DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:

> I recall that many, many years ago, there were PATA drives that had a
> dip switch setting that prevented all writing to the drive. In light
> of so many novel security issues, I miss this very old feature. Are
> there any drives that still have such a feature? (SATA preferred, but
> I would live with PATA.)

No drives, but you can get forensic write blocker, e.g. these here:

http://www.forensicpc.com/proddetail.asp?prod=T35e

I think they are a bit over-priced, but if you want to be sure,
(as in preserving evidence) they are the way to go. Seems this
offering is a s cheap as it gets.

> (PS: No, this must not be software settable.

That would kind of defeat the purpose anyways

> This would defeat my
> intent. It must only be hardware settable, so that changes can only
> be made if I am physically at the hard drive and insert the switch.
> Interestingly, this should be something that should be very easy to
> implement for drive manufacturers.)

For drive manufactueres, spending the extra 50 Cent is not cost
effective, since apparently only very, very few people
want this feature.

Arno
 >> Stay informed about: drive with read-only dip switch 

Previously RonnieJP <ronniejp.TakeThisOut@pacbell.net> wrote:
> On Jan 30, 2:17 pm, ivowel <ivo....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I recall that many, many years ago, there were PATA drives that had a
>> dip switch setting that prevented all writing to the drive. In light
>> of so many novel security issues, I miss this very old feature. Are
>> there any drives that still have such a feature? (SATA preferred, but
>> I would live with PATA.)
>>
>> (PS: No, this must not be software settable. This would defeat my
>> intent. It must only be hardware settable, so that changes can only
>> be made if I am physically at the hard drive and insert the switch.
>> Interestingly, this should be something that should be very easy to
>> implement for drive manufacturers.)
>>
>> sincerely,
>>
>> /iaw

> All modern operating systems continually need to write to the drive
> (paging file, etc.).
> Write protecting the system drive would render the OS unusable.

That is untrue. Paging can be switched off or done to an other disk.
Under some OSes it can even be done to RAMDISK (which sounds redundant,
but is not.) Ans disks can be mounted in read-nonly mode. A device that
often has the switch for that today is memory sticks.

Side note: A Knoppix CD-only linux does not write a single bit to disk,
unless you explicitely allow it to. It works fine.

Arno
 >> Stay informed about: drive with read-only dip switch 

On Jan 31, 7:49 am, Arno Wagner <m....DeleteThis@privacy.net> wrote:
> Previouslyivowel<ivo....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I recall that many, many years ago, there were PATA drives that had a
> > dip switch setting that prevented all writing to the drive. In light
> > of so many novel security issues, I miss this very old feature. Are
> > there any drives that still have such a feature? (SATA preferred, but
> > I would live with PATA.)
>
> No drives, but you can get forensic write blocker, e.g. these here:
>
> http://www.forensicpc.com/proddetail.asp?prod=T35e
>
> I think they are a bit over-priced, but if you want to be sure,
> (as in preserving evidence) they are the way to go. Seems this
> offering is a s cheap as it gets.
>
> > (PS: No, this must not be software settable.
>
> That would kind of defeat the purpose anyways
>
> > This would defeat my
> > intent. It must only be hardware settable, so that changes can only
> > be made if I am physically at the hard drive and insert the switch.
> > Interestingly, this should be something that should be very easy to
> > implement for drive manufacturers.)
>
> For drive manufactueres, spending the extra 50 Cent is not cost
> effective, since apparently only very, very few people
> want this feature.
>
> Arno


thanks. yes, these kinds of devices are what I would like, but they
do look expensive, and they look like a pain to install inside my
server.

the extra 50 cents that this feature would cost a drive manufacturer
would not be worth it for every drive, but I could imagine there being
a limited market (1% of the market) that would pay $50 extra for this
feature. this could make it worthwhile for some manufacturers to have
one or two models that have this feature. (used to be this way.)

RAMdisk as a solution does not work, because I need to be able to boot
and then prevent all write access to the hard drive until I switch my
button.

CD as a solution does not work, because I need to update it once a
week or so (security patches, etc.). I would want to disconnect the
server from the web, reboot it to my safe system that does not run
anything else, hit the read-write toggle, and then execute the
updates.

regards,

/iaw
 >> Stay informed about: drive with read-only dip switch 

There were SCSI drives with this feature, mine is an 9GB IBM UW.
There are USB-PATA bridge boards with this feature for around $20.

"ivowel" <ivowel.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:432eb65b-05a2-46e7-bd24-5c92f2b84569@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> I recall that many, many years ago, there were PATA drives that had a
> dip switch setting that prevented all writing to the drive. In light
> of so many novel security issues, I miss this very old feature. Are
> there any drives that still have such a feature? (SATA preferred, but
> I would live with PATA.)
>
> (PS: No, this must not be software settable. This would defeat my
> intent. It must only be hardware settable, so that changes can only
> be made if I am physically at the hard drive and insert the switch.
> Interestingly, this should be something that should be very easy to
> implement for drive manufacturers.)
>
 >> Stay informed about: drive with read-only dip switch 

Arno Wagner wrote in news:60duecF1qnnveU1@mid.individual.net
> Previously ivowel <ivowel.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I recall that many, many years ago, there were PATA drives that had a
> > dip switch setting that prevented all writing to the drive. In light
> > of so many novel security issues, I miss this very old feature. Are
> > there any drives that still have such a feature? (SATA preferred, but
> > I would live with PATA.)
>
> No drives, but you can get forensic write blocker, e.g. these here:
>
> http://www.forensicpc.com/proddetail.asp?prod=T35e
>
> I think they are a bit over-priced, but if you want to be sure,
> (as in preserving evidence) they are the way to go.

> Seems this offering is a s cheap as it gets.

Cheaper that SCSI even?

>
> > (PS: No, this must not be software settable.

> That would kind of defeat the purpose anyways

And what purpose would that be, babblebot?

>
> > This would defeat my intent.
> > It must only be hardware settable, so that changes can only
> > be made if I am physically at the hard drive and insert the switch.
> > Interestingly, this should be something that should be very easy to
> > implement for drive manufacturers.)
>
> For drive manufactueres, spending the extra 50 Cent is not cost ef-
> fective, since apparently only very, very few people want this feature.
>
> Arno
 >> Stay informed about: drive with read-only dip switch 

Arno Wagner wrote in news:60duifF1qnnveU2@mid.individual.net
> Previously RonnieJP <ronniejp.DeleteThis@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > On Jan 30, 2:17 pm, ivowel <ivo....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I recall that many, many years ago, there were PATA drives that had a
> > > dip switch setting that prevented all writing to the drive. In light
> > > of so many novel security issues, I miss this very old feature. Are
> > > there any drives that still have such a feature? (SATA preferred, but
> > > I would live with PATA.)
> > >
> > > (PS: No, this must not be software settable. This would defeat my
> > > intent. It must only be hardware settable, so that changes can only
> > > be made if I am physically at the hard drive and insert the switch.
> > > Interestingly, this should be something that should be very easy to
> > > implement for drive manufacturers.)
> > >
> > > sincerely,
> > >
> > > /iaw
>
> > All modern operating systems continually need to write to the drive
> > (paging file, etc.).

> > Write protecting the system drive would render the OS unusable.
>
> That is untrue.

Babblebot, cluelessv as always.

> Paging can be switched off or done to an other disk.
> Under some OSes it can even be done to RAMDISK (which sounds redundant,
> but is not.) Ans disks can be mounted in read-nonly mode. A device that
> often has the switch for that today is memory sticks.
>
> Side note: A Knoppix CD-only linux does not write a single bit to disk,
> unless you explicitely allow it to. It works fine.
>
> Arno
 >> Stay informed about: drive with read-only dip switch 

Previously ivowel <ivowel RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 31, 7:49 am, Arno Wagner <m... RemoveThis @privacy.net> wrote:
>> Previouslyivowel<ivo... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I recall that many, many years ago, there were PATA drives that had a
>> > dip switch setting that prevented all writing to the drive. In light
>> > of so many novel security issues, I miss this very old feature. Are
>> > there any drives that still have such a feature? (SATA preferred, but
>> > I would live with PATA.)
>>
>> No drives, but you can get forensic write blocker, e.g. these here:
>>
>> http://www.forensicpc.com/proddetail.asp?prod=T35e
>>
>> I think they are a bit over-priced, but if you want to be sure,
>> (as in preserving evidence) they are the way to go. Seems this
>> offering is a s cheap as it gets.
>>
>> > (PS: No, this must not be software settable.
>>
>> That would kind of defeat the purpose anyways
>>
>> > This would defeat my
>> > intent. It must only be hardware settable, so that changes can only
>> > be made if I am physically at the hard drive and insert the switch.
>> > Interestingly, this should be something that should be very easy to
>> > implement for drive manufacturers.)
>>
>> For drive manufactueres, spending the extra 50 Cent is not cost
>> effective, since apparently only very, very few people
>> want this feature.
>>
>> Arno


> thanks. yes, these kinds of devices are what I would like, but they
> do look expensive, and they look like a pain to install inside my
> server.

> the extra 50 cents that this feature would cost a drive manufacturer
> would not be worth it for every drive, but I could imagine there being
> a limited market (1% of the market) that would pay $50 extra for this
> feature. this could make it worthwhile for some manufacturers to have
> one or two models that have this feature. (used to be this way.)

I would think so too, but aparently drive manufacturers believe
differently. Also probably only very few people actually implement
this type of security measure.

> RAMdisk as a solution does not work, because I need to be able to boot
> and then prevent all write access to the hard drive until I switch my
> button.

> CD as a solution does not work, because I need to update it once a
> week or so (security patches, etc.). I would want to disconnect the
> server from the web, reboot it to my safe system that does not run
> anything else, hit the read-write toggle, and then execute the
> updates.

Hmm. Maybe use a USB flash drive with write protection switch?
Some do have them. If your server can boot from USB, you could
keep the flash drive on the outside and conveniently reachable
via USB extension cable.

An other idea would be to use a fileserver that exports the
partition read-only. Depends on your OS and requires
a separate server.

Arno
 >> Stay informed about: drive with read-only dip switch 

ivowel <ivowel.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 31, 7:49 am, Arno Wagner <m....TakeThisOut@privacy.net> wrote:
>> Previouslyivowel<ivo....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I recall that many, many years ago, there were PATA drives that had
>>> a dip switch setting that prevented all writing to the drive. In
>>> light of so many novel security issues, I miss this very old
>>> feature. Are there any drives that still have such a feature?
>>> (SATA preferred, but I would live with PATA.)
>>
>> No drives, but you can get forensic write blocker, e.g. these here:
>>
>> http://www.forensicpc.com/proddetail.asp?prod=T35e
>>
>> I think they are a bit over-priced, but if you want to be sure,
>> (as in preserving evidence) they are the way to go. Seems this
>> offering is a s cheap as it gets.
>>
>>> (PS: No, this must not be software settable.
>>
>> That would kind of defeat the purpose anyways
>>
>>> This would defeat my
>>> intent. It must only be hardware settable, so that changes can only
>>> be made if I am physically at the hard drive and insert the switch.
>>> Interestingly, this should be something that should be very easy to
>>> implement for drive manufacturers.)
>>
>> For drive manufactueres, spending the extra 50 Cent is not cost
>> effective, since apparently only very, very few people
>> want this feature.

> thanks. yes, these kinds of devices are what I would like, but they
> do look expensive, and they look like a pain to install inside my server.

> the extra 50 cents that this feature would cost a drive manufacturer would
> not be worth it for every drive, but I could imagine there being a limited
> market (1% of the market) that would pay $50 extra for this feature.

Nope, anyone with a clue uses more sophisticated
ways of stopping unwanted writes on a particular drive.

The problem with a physical switch on the drive itself is that its a pain in the arse to use.

> this could make it worthwhile for some manufacturers to have
> one or two models that have this feature. (used to be this way.)

Nope.

> RAMdisk as a solution does not work, because I need to be able to boot
> and then prevent all write access to the hard drive until I switch my button.

The point about a ram disk is that you dont care if its written to because
any changes to that COPY of the drive contents is gone when you reboot.

> CD as a solution does not work, because I need to update it once a
> week or so (security patches, etc.). I would want to disconnect the
> server from the web, reboot it to my safe system that does not run
> anything else, hit the read-write toggle, and then execute the updates.

Anyone with a clue has proper backups and so it makes a lot more
sense to detect writes that you didnt want to happen and restore from
backup if that does happen instead of a physical write protect jumper.
 >> Stay informed about: drive with read-only dip switch 

Arno Wagner wrote:

> For drive manufactueres, spending the extra 50 Cent is not cost
> effective, since apparently only very, very few people
> want this feature.
>
> Arno

Floppy drives, Mini-DV, VHS, some flash drives, and audio tape all have
write-protect switches.

If not on the drive itself, perhaps an external HDD enclosure could
offer that feature.

Here's one, looks a few years old though.
<http://www.stargeek.com/item/95899.html>
 >> Stay informed about: drive with read-only dip switch 

Previously timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM.DeleteThis@theknack.net> wrote:
> Arno Wagner wrote:

>> For drive manufactueres, spending the extra 50 Cent is not cost
>> effective, since apparently only very, very few people
>> want this feature.
>>
>> Arno

> Floppy drives, Mini-DV, VHS, some flash drives, and audio tape all have
> write-protect switches.

Indeed. But they are on removable media (counting the flash
drives as media). HDDs are not in that class.

> If not on the drive itself, perhaps an external HDD enclosure could
> offer that feature.

They could. Of course, implementing this is more diffecult for (S)ATA,
than for the removable medua you mention, since the ''switch''
needs to understand the ATA command set.

Arno
 >> Stay informed about: drive with read-only dip switch 

In article <60ia0vF1qi80lU1.DeleteThis@mid.individual.net>,
Arno Wagner <me.DeleteThis@privacy.net> wrote:
:Previously timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM.DeleteThis@theknack.net> wrote:
:> Arno Wagner wrote:
:
:>> For drive manufactueres, spending the extra 50 Cent is not cost
:>> effective, since apparently only very, very few people
:>> want this feature.
:>>
:>> Arno
:
:> Floppy drives, Mini-DV, VHS, some flash drives, and audio tape all have
:> write-protect switches.
:
:Indeed. But they are on removable media (counting the flash
:drives as media). HDDs are not in that class.
:
:> If not on the drive itself, perhaps an external HDD enclosure could
:> offer that feature.
:
:They could. Of course, implementing this is more diffecult for (S)ATA,
:than for the removable medua you mention, since the ''switch''
:needs to understand the ATA command set.

That would be true for parallel ATA as well. Accessing and reading data
from the drive requires writes to internal control registers. You can't
just interrupt the "WRITE" signal in the bus and expect to use the drive
at all.

--
Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42"
 >> Stay informed about: drive with read-only dip switch 

Previously Robert Nichols <SEE_SIGNATURE DeleteThis @localhost.localdomain.invalid> wrote:
> In article <60ia0vF1qi80lU1 DeleteThis @mid.individual.net>,
> Arno Wagner <me DeleteThis @privacy.net> wrote:
> :Previously timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM DeleteThis @theknack.net> wrote:
> :> Arno Wagner wrote:
> :
> :>> For drive manufactueres, spending the extra 50 Cent is not cost
> :>> effective, since apparently only very, very few people
> :>> want this feature.
> :>>
> :>> Arno
> :
> :> Floppy drives, Mini-DV, VHS, some flash drives, and audio tape all have
> :> write-protect switches.
> :
> :Indeed. But they are on removable media (counting the flash
> :drives as media). HDDs are not in that class.
> :
> :> If not on the drive itself, perhaps an external HDD enclosure could
> :> offer that feature.
> :
> :They could. Of course, implementing this is more diffecult for (S)ATA,
> :than for the removable medua you mention, since the ''switch''
> :needs to understand the ATA command set.

> That would be true for parallel ATA as well.

Have you seen the "(" and ")" around the "S" above?

> Accessing and reading data
> from the drive requires writes to internal control registers. You can't
> just interrupt the "WRITE" signal in the bus and expect to use the drive
> at all.

Indeed. THat was feasible, though, with MFM and RLL drives.

Arno
 >> Stay informed about: drive with read-only dip switch