floppy drive problems

Previously anniewarbucks <anniewarbucks.32zzyg.TakeThisOut@no.email.invalid> wrote:

> A friend of mine is running Windows XP Recently he has had a problem
> with his floppy drive. he can put a floppy in and read the contents just
> fine. But that is where the okay status ends. The next disk that he
> places in will read as the previous disk. any subsequent disk will read
> as the first. The only way that he can get it to read any other disks is
> to restart the computer. What help can I getr to help him with his
> problem?

If I remember correctly, disk change detection is done by an optical
sensor in some drives. If there is enough dust, disk changes
will not be detected and XP will deliver the data from cache.
Clean the drive with compressed air or (requires opening) a
camera lens brush.

Arno
 >> Stay informed about: floppy drive problems 

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:49:34 -0600, anniewarbucks
<anniewarbucks.32zzyg.RemoveThis@no.email.invalid> put finger to keyboard and
composed:

>
>A friend of mine is running Windows XP Recently he has had a problem
>with his floppy drive. he can put a floppy in and read the contents just
>fine. But that is where the okay status ends. The next disk that he
>places in will read as the previous disk. any subsequent disk will read
>as the first. The only way that he can get it to read any other disks is
>to restart the computer. What help can I getr to help him with his
>problem?
>

I don't use XP but in Win9x's Explorer one possible workaround is to
select View -> Refresh.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
 >> Stay informed about: floppy drive problems 

anniewarbucks <anniewarbucks.32zzyg.TakeThisOut@no.email.invalid> wrote:

> A friend of mine is running Windows XP Recently he has had a problem
> with his floppy drive. he can put a floppy in and read the contents just
> fine. But that is where the okay status ends. The next disk that he
> places in will read as the previous disk. any subsequent disk will read
> as the first. The only way that he can get it to read any other disks is
> to restart the computer. What help can I getr to help him with his
> problem?

This is a well known problem that occurred under certain conditions and settings
of disk caching. I saw it happen hundreds of times when I worked on copy
protection schemes, back in the nineties.

Sometimes, the first track of the floppy inserted into the drive is cashed. The
cached data consists of the boot sector, FAT and root directory. If the floppy
is removed and another one is inserted, with its write enable tab in "enable"
position, then there is a chance that the cached area will be written to the
newly inserted floppy. Most chances are that the floppies inserted after the
first one had their system area overwritten and are actually ruined.

To avoid such mishap, tell your friend to write protect his floppies before
inserting them for a first read.

Regards, Zvi
--
NetZ Computing Ltd. ISRAEL www.invircible.com
InVircible Malware Protection, ResQ and Data Recovery
 >> Stay informed about: floppy drive problems 

Zvi Netiv wrote in news:j6tgq3h7249edak8mcvfmvtle19qnkifme@4ax.com
> anniewarbucks <anniewarbucks.32zzyg.RemoveThis@no.email.invalid> wrote:
>
> > A friend of mine is running Windows XP Recently he has had a problem
> > with his floppy drive. he can put a floppy in and read the contents just
> > fine. But that is where the okay status ends. The next disk that he
> > places in will read as the previous disk. any subsequent disk will read
> > as the first. The only way that he can get it to read any other disks is
> > to restart the computer. What help can I getr to help him with his
> > problem?
>
> This is a well known problem that occurred under certain conditions and
> settings of disk caching. I saw it happen hundreds of times when I worked on
> copy protection schemes, back in the nineties.
>
> Sometimes, the first track of the floppy inserted into the drive is cashed.
> The cached data consists of the boot sector, FAT and root directory.

> If the floppy is removed and another one is inserted, with its
> write enable tab in "enable" position, then there is a chance that
> the cached area will be written to the newly inserted floppy.

Only if the disk change detect switch/line doesn't work.

> Most chances are that the floppies inserted after the first
> one had their system area overwritten and are actually ruined.
>
> To avoid such mishap, tell your friend to write protect his floppies before
> inserting them for a first read.
>
> Regards, Zvi
 >> Stay informed about: floppy drive problems 

"Bud" <Fr8dnot DeleteThis @RubberBud.au> wrote:

> Zvi Netiv wrote in news:j6tgq3h7249edak8mcvfmvtle19qnkifme@4ax.com
> > anniewarbucks <anniewarbucks.32zzyg DeleteThis @no.email.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > A friend of mine is running Windows XP Recently he has had a problem
> > > with his floppy drive. he can put a floppy in and read the contents just
> > > fine. But that is where the okay status ends. The next disk that he
> > > places in will read as the previous disk. any subsequent disk will read
> > > as the first. The only way that he can get it to read any other disks is
> > > to restart the computer. What help can I getr to help him with his
> > > problem?
> >
> > This is a well known problem that occurred under certain conditions and
> > settings of disk caching. I saw it happen hundreds of times when I worked on
> > copy protection schemes, back in the nineties.
> >
> > Sometimes, the first track of the floppy inserted into the drive is cashed.
> > The cached data consists of the boot sector, FAT and root directory.
>
> > If the floppy is removed and another one is inserted, with its
> > write enable tab in "enable" position, then there is a chance that
> > the cached area will be written to the newly inserted floppy.
>
> Only if the disk change detect switch/line doesn't work.

Unlikely, for several reasons. First, I must have experimented with quite a few
machines, many with defective disk change detection if this would have been the
case. Secondly, even if the disk change detection was in fault, then why should
the cached track 0 be written to the new floppy? This last observation was
verified by inspecting the subsequently inserted floppies, write protected this
time, on a different PC. Overwritten they were.

My recollection is that I could stop the bizarre behavior by removing SMARTDRV
from the system configuration files (autoexec, config.sys - we are talking of
the first half of the nineties, when DOS still ruled), which is what suggested
that the problem was caused by cache.

The OP can easily check if cache was the cause here too, by reading his friend
floppies on a different PC, or even on the same one, but after rebooting. If
they all show the same root directory content then disk cache is to blame.

Regards, Zvi

> > Most chances are that the floppies inserted after the first
> > one had their system area overwritten and are actually ruined.
> >
> > To avoid such mishap, tell your friend to write protect his floppies before
> > inserting them for a first read.
--
NetZ Computing Ltd. ISRAEL www.invircible.com
InVircible Malware Protection, ResQ and Data Recovery
 >> Stay informed about: floppy drive problems 

Zvi Netiv wrote in news:p21jq359flrh6mshuhs9u6k815gm8hdt2a@4ax.com
> "Bud" <Fr8dnot RemoveThis @RubberBud.au> wrote:
> > Zvi Netiv wrote in news:j6tgq3h7249edak8mcvfmvtle19qnkifme@4ax.com
> > > anniewarbucks <anniewarbucks.32zzyg RemoveThis @no.email.invalid> wrote:
> > >
> > > > A friend of mine is running Windows XP Recently he has had a problem
> > > > with his floppy drive. he can put a floppy in and read the contents just
> > > > fine. But that is where the okay status ends. The next disk that he
> > > > places in will read as the previous disk. any subsequent disk will read
> > > > as the first. The only way that he can get it to read any other disks is
> > > > to restart the computer. What help can I getr to help him with his
> > > > problem?
> > >
> > > This is a well known problem that occurred under certain conditions and
> > > settings of disk caching. I saw it happen hundreds of times when I
> > > worked on copy protection schemes, back in the nineties.
> > >
> > > Sometimes, the first track of the floppy inserted into the drive is
> > > cashed. The cached data consists of the boot sector, FAT and root
> > > directory.
> >
> > > If the floppy is removed and another one is inserted, with its
> > > write enable tab in "enable" position, then there is a chance that
> > > the cached area will be written to the newly inserted floppy.
> >
> > Only if the disk change detect switch/line doesn't work.

> Unlikely, for several reasons. First, I must have experimented with quite a
> few machines, many with defective disk change detection

It need not necessarily be defective. Not all floppy drives did have that signal.
Floppy drives were not exactly the most standardized items in those days.

> if this would have been the case. Secondly, even if the disk change detection
> was in fault, then why should the cached track 0 be written to the new floppy?

Because the system isn't aware the disk was changed so the cache isn't invalidated.

> This last observation was verified by inspecting the subsequently inserted
> floppies, write protected this time, on a different PC. Overwritten they were.

Yes, that's not disputed.

>
> My recollection is that I could stop the bizarre behavior by removing SMARTDRV
> from the system configuration files (autoexec, config.sys - we are talking of
> the first half of the nineties, when DOS still ruled),

> which is what suggested that the problem was caused by cache.

That's not disputed either.

>
> The OP can easily check if cache was the cause here too, by reading his friend
> floppies on a different PC, or even on the same one, but after rebooting.

> If they all show the same root directory content then disk cache is to blame.

Sure. But not what first caused it.

>
> Regards, Zvi
>
> > > Most chances are that the floppies inserted after the first
> > > one had their system area overwritten and are actually ruined.
> > >
> > > To avoid such mishap, tell your friend to write protect his floppies
> > > before inserting them for a first read.
 >> Stay informed about: floppy drive problems