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Ken

External


Since: Jul 31, 2005
Posts: 27



(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:34 am
Post subject: Need help thinking through additional storage options for home network
Archived from groups: comp>sys>ibm>pc>hardware>storage (more info?)

I have a home network with 4 computers, 3 desktops and one laptop, as
well as two ReplayTVs. The main computer is mine; I have an Asus p4pe
mb with two SATA drives connected to the onboard controller (Promise).
I have a Plextor DVD burner attached to the IDE connector. In addition
to the storage needs below, I am thinking about purchasing a 2nd DVD
burner capable of burning dual layer DVD's and that would probably be a
SATA connection, although I could probably add one with an IDE connector
to the second connector of my present DVD burner.

I am running out of hard drive space and rather than upgrade my hdd's
from 120 GB main drive with a removable 250 GB that serves as storage
and backup for my other family members, I have a great price on 2 SATA
Maxtor Diamondmax 10 hdds that I would like to add for extra storage.
Presently I back up each computer nightly with TrueImage 8, with a full
backup every Sun AM and incremental backups nightly, rewritten each Sunday.

I am thinking about three possible solutions:

1. Add two 300 GB hdd SATA hdd's to my desktop for storage of movies,
music, and for backup. Since my computer only has 2 SATA receptacles, I
would need to add a SATA controller card.

2. Add a remote NAS storage in the networking closet in my home, such
as a Linksys NSLU2. It would allow for "remote" storage in the event
that someone steals my computer, as it would be unlikely, since the
house is alarmed, that they would be able to find the NAS by the time
the police responded. The unit allows for attachment of two external
USB hdd's. I am not sure how slow the data access would be, though. On
the other hand, the unit would be mainly for storage.

3. Now that my daughter is off to college and left her desktop, I have
a spare computer running XP and could set up the new drives as shared
drives, essentially adding attached storage. Her motherboard is an older
ASUS motherboard, CUSL2, and I would have to purchase a card to allow
for adding the new SATA drives.

If adding a SATA controller card is an option (and I say IF only because
I do not know how buggy they are), then I would appreciate suggestions
as to which cards I should consider.

I would also appreciate if someone who has the experience and
understanding could comment about how much option #2 would slow down
data transmission compared to having a hdd directly attached to a system
internally. Would a setup in #2 work over a network to, at some time in
the future, stream video to a home theater

Thanks
Ken K
Ken K

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Rod Speed

External


Since: Nov 09, 2003
Posts: 2317



(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help thinking through additional storage options for home network [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Ken <ken DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:

> I have a home network with 4 computers, 3 desktops and one laptop, as
> well as two ReplayTVs. The main computer is mine; I have an Asus p4pe
> mb with two SATA drives connected to the onboard controller (Promise).
> I have a Plextor DVD burner attached to the IDE connector. In addition
> to the storage needs below, I am thinking about purchasing a 2nd DVD
> burner capable of burning dual layer DVD's and that would probably be
> a SATA connection, although I could probably add one with an IDE
> connector to the second connector of my present DVD burner.

> I am running out of hard drive space and rather than upgrade my hdd's
> from 120 GB main drive with a removable 250 GB that serves as storage
> and backup for my other family members, I have a great price on 2 SATA
> Maxtor Diamondmax 10 hdds that I would like to add for extra storage.
> Presently I back up each computer nightly with TrueImage 8, with a
> full backup every Sun AM and incremental backups nightly, rewritten
> each Sunday.

> I am thinking about three possible solutions:

> 1. Add two 300 GB hdd SATA hdd's to my desktop for storage of movies, music,
> and for backup. Since my computer only has 2 SATA receptacles, I would need
> to add a SATA controller card.

> 2. Add a remote NAS storage in the networking closet in my home, such as a
> Linksys NSLU2.

I woudnt go that route myself, I'd use a real PC instead.

Basically gives you a lot more flexibility, with
the main downside that the box is a bit bigger.

> It would allow for "remote" storage in the event that someone steals my
> computer, as it would be unlikely, since the house is alarmed, that they would
> be able to find the NAS by the time the police responded.

And you can secure that well enough to stop
any thief getting it before the cops show up.

Not so good with a house fire etc tho.

> The unit allows for attachment of two external USB hdd's. I am not sure how
> slow the data access would be, though. On the other hand, the unit would be
> mainly for storage.

> 3. Now that my daughter is off to college and left her desktop, I have a
> spare computer running XP and could set up the new drives as shared drives,
> essentially adding attached storage. Her motherboard is an older ASUS
> motherboard, CUSL2, and I would have to purchase a card to allow for adding
> the new SATA drives.

> If adding a SATA controller card is an option (and I say IF only because I do
> not know how buggy they are), then I would appreciate suggestions as to which
> cards I should consider.

> I would also appreciate if someone who has the experience and understanding
> could comment about how much option #2 would slow down data transmission
> compared to having a hdd directly attached to a system internally.

Yes, its noticeably slower than with the drive internal unless you
go for a gigabit lan. gigabit lans are quite affordable now tho.

> Would a setup in #2 work over a network to, at some time in the future, stream
> video to a home theater

Yes, I do that now with captured digital TV which produces
2-3GB/hour/channel files, over 54Mb wireless to a wireless
laptop, works fine.

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Ken

External


Since: Jul 31, 2005
Posts: 27



(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help thinking through additional storage options for home [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Rod Speed wrote:
> Ken <ken.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>I have a home network with 4 computers, 3 desktops and one laptop, as
>>well as two ReplayTVs. The main computer is mine; I have an Asus p4pe
>>mb with two SATA drives connected to the onboard controller (Promise).
>>I have a Plextor DVD burner attached to the IDE connector. In addition
>>to the storage needs below, I am thinking about purchasing a 2nd DVD
>>burner capable of burning dual layer DVD's and that would probably be
>>a SATA connection, although I could probably add one with an IDE
>>connector to the second connector of my present DVD burner.
>
>
>>I am running out of hard drive space and rather than upgrade my hdd's
>>from 120 GB main drive with a removable 250 GB that serves as storage
>>and backup for my other family members, I have a great price on 2 SATA
>>Maxtor Diamondmax 10 hdds that I would like to add for extra storage.
>>Presently I back up each computer nightly with TrueImage 8, with a
>>full backup every Sun AM and incremental backups nightly, rewritten
>>each Sunday.
>
>
>>I am thinking about three possible solutions:
>
>
>>1. Add two 300 GB hdd SATA hdd's to my desktop for storage of movies, music,
>>and for backup. Since my computer only has 2 SATA receptacles, I would need
>>to add a SATA controller card.
>
>
>>2. Add a remote NAS storage in the networking closet in my home, such as a
>>Linksys NSLU2.
>
>
> I woudnt go that route myself, I'd use a real PC instead.
>
> Basically gives you a lot more flexibility, with
> the main downside that the box is a bit bigger.
>
>
>>It would allow for "remote" storage in the event that someone steals my
>>computer, as it would be unlikely, since the house is alarmed, that they would
>>be able to find the NAS by the time the police responded.
>
>
> And you can secure that well enough to stop
> any thief getting it before the cops show up.
>
> Not so good with a house fire etc tho.
>
>
>>The unit allows for attachment of two external USB hdd's. I am not sure how
>>slow the data access would be, though. On the other hand, the unit would be
>>mainly for storage.
>
>
>>3. Now that my daughter is off to college and left her desktop, I have a
>>spare computer running XP and could set up the new drives as shared drives,
>>essentially adding attached storage. Her motherboard is an older ASUS
>>motherboard, CUSL2, and I would have to purchase a card to allow for adding
>>the new SATA drives.
>
>
>>If adding a SATA controller card is an option (and I say IF only because I do
>>not know how buggy they are), then I would appreciate suggestions as to which
>>cards I should consider.
>
>
>>I would also appreciate if someone who has the experience and understanding
>>could comment about how much option #2 would slow down data transmission
>>compared to having a hdd directly attached to a system internally.
>
>
> Yes, its noticeably slower than with the drive internal unless you
> go for a gigabit lan. gigabit lans are quite affordable now tho.
>
>
>>Would a setup in #2 work over a network to, at some time in the future, stream
>>video to a home theater
>
>
> Yes, I do that now with captured digital TV which produces
> 2-3GB/hour/channel files, over 54Mb wireless to a wireless
> laptop, works fine.
>
>
Thanks. I have considered the fire issue and have a swapable hdd
enclosure that I do not exchange often enough... Wink

Re: gigabit network. I have CAT5e throughout my house. Is that good
enough for gigabit or does gigabit require a different wire?

Thanks
Ken K
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Rod Speed

External


Since: Nov 09, 2003
Posts: 2317



(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help thinking through additional storage options for home network [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Ken <ken DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Ken <ken DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote

>>> I have a home network with 4 computers, 3 desktops and one laptop,
>>> as well as two ReplayTVs. The main computer is mine; I have an Asus
>>> p4pe mb with two SATA drives connected to the onboard controller
>>> (Promise). I have a Plextor DVD burner attached to the IDE connector. In
>>> addition to the storage needs below, I am thinking about purchasing a 2nd
>>> DVD
>>> burner capable of burning dual layer DVD's and that would probably
>>> be a SATA connection, although I could probably add one with an IDE
>>> connector to the second connector of my present DVD burner.
>>
>>
>>> I am running out of hard drive space and rather than upgrade my
>>> hdd's from 120 GB main drive with a removable 250 GB that serves as
>>> storage and backup for my other family members, I have a great price on 2
>>> SATA Maxtor Diamondmax 10 hdds that I would like to add for extra
>>> storage. Presently I back up each computer nightly with TrueImage
>>> 8, with a full backup every Sun AM and incremental backups nightly,
>>> rewritten
>>> each Sunday.
>>
>>
>>> I am thinking about three possible solutions:
>>
>>
>>> 1. Add two 300 GB hdd SATA hdd's to my desktop for storage of
>>> movies, music, and for backup. Since my computer only has 2 SATA
>>> receptacles, I would need to add a SATA controller card.
>>
>>
>>> 2. Add a remote NAS storage in the networking closet in my home,
>>> such as a Linksys NSLU2.
>>
>>
>> I woudnt go that route myself, I'd use a real PC instead.
>>
>> Basically gives you a lot more flexibility, with
>> the main downside that the box is a bit bigger.
>>
>>
>>> It would allow for "remote" storage in the event that someone
>>> steals my computer, as it would be unlikely, since the house is
>>> alarmed, that they would be able to find the NAS by the time the
>>> police responded.
>>
>>
>> And you can secure that well enough to stop
>> any thief getting it before the cops show up.
>>
>> Not so good with a house fire etc tho.
>>
>>
>>> The unit allows for attachment of two external USB hdd's. I am not
>>> sure how slow the data access would be, though. On the other hand,
>>> the unit would be mainly for storage.
>>
>>
>>> 3. Now that my daughter is off to college and left her desktop, I
>>> have a spare computer running XP and could set up the new drives as
>>> shared drives, essentially adding attached storage. Her motherboard
>>> is an older ASUS motherboard, CUSL2, and I would have to purchase a
>>> card to allow for adding the new SATA drives.
>>
>>
>>> If adding a SATA controller card is an option (and I say IF only
>>> because I do not know how buggy they are), then I would appreciate
>>> suggestions as to which cards I should consider.
>>
>>
>>> I would also appreciate if someone who has the experience and
>>> understanding could comment about how much option #2 would slow
>>> down data transmission compared to having a hdd directly attached
>>> to a system internally.
>>
>>
>> Yes, its noticeably slower than with the drive internal unless you
>> go for a gigabit lan. gigabit lans are quite affordable now tho.
>>
>>
>>> Would a setup in #2 work over a network to, at some time in the
>>> future, stream video to a home theater
>>
>>
>> Yes, I do that now with captured digital TV which produces
>> 2-3GB/hour/channel files, over 54Mb wireless to a wireless
>> laptop, works fine.
>>
>>
> Thanks. I have considered the fire issue and have a swapable hdd
> enclosure that I do not exchange often enough... Wink

> Re: gigabit network. I have CAT5e throughout my house. Is that good enough
> for gigabit or does gigabit require a different wire?

Should be fine, just change the NICs and switch etc.
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Ken

External


Since: Jul 31, 2005
Posts: 27



(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help thinking through additional storage options for home [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Ken wrote:
> I have a home network with 4 computers, 3 desktops and one laptop, as
> well as two ReplayTVs. The main computer is mine; I have an Asus p4pe
> mb with two SATA drives connected to the onboard controller (Promise). I
> have a Plextor DVD burner attached to the IDE connector. In addition to
> the storage needs below, I am thinking about purchasing a 2nd DVD burner
> capable of burning dual layer DVD's and that would probably be a SATA
> connection, although I could probably add one with an IDE connector to
> the second connector of my present DVD burner.
>
> I am running out of hard drive space and rather than upgrade my hdd's
> from 120 GB main drive with a removable 250 GB that serves as storage
> and backup for my other family members, I have a great price on 2 SATA
> Maxtor Diamondmax 10 hdds that I would like to add for extra storage.
> Presently I back up each computer nightly with TrueImage 8, with a full
> backup every Sun AM and incremental backups nightly, rewritten each Sunday.
>
> I am thinking about three possible solutions:
>
> 1. Add two 300 GB hdd SATA hdd's to my desktop for storage of movies,
> music, and for backup. Since my computer only has 2 SATA receptacles, I
> would need to add a SATA controller card.
>
> 2. Add a remote NAS storage in the networking closet in my home, such
> as a Linksys NSLU2. It would allow for "remote" storage in the event
> that someone steals my computer, as it would be unlikely, since the
> house is alarmed, that they would be able to find the NAS by the time
> the police responded. The unit allows for attachment of two external
> USB hdd's. I am not sure how slow the data access would be, though. On
> the other hand, the unit would be mainly for storage.
>
> 3. Now that my daughter is off to college and left her desktop, I have
> a spare computer running XP and could set up the new drives as shared
> drives, essentially adding attached storage. Her motherboard is an older
> ASUS motherboard, CUSL2, and I would have to purchase a card to allow
> for adding the new SATA drives.
>
> If adding a SATA controller card is an option (and I say IF only because
> I do not know how buggy they are), then I would appreciate suggestions
> as to which cards I should consider.
>
> I would also appreciate if someone who has the experience and
> understanding could comment about how much option #2 would slow down
> data transmission compared to having a hdd directly attached to a system
> internally. Would a setup in #2 work over a network to, at some time in
> the future, stream video to a home theater
>
> Thanks
> Ken K
> Ken K

Thanks to all for the input

Ken
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Arno Wagner

External


Since: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 1692



(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:55 am
Post subject: Re: Need help thinking through additional storage options for home network [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Previously Ken <ken.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote:
> I have a home network with 4 computers, 3 desktops and one laptop, as
> well as two ReplayTVs. The main computer is mine; I have an Asus p4pe
> mb with two SATA drives connected to the onboard controller (Promise).
> I have a Plextor DVD burner attached to the IDE connector. In addition
> to the storage needs below, I am thinking about purchasing a 2nd DVD
> burner capable of burning dual layer DVD's and that would probably be a
> SATA connection, although I could probably add one with an IDE connector
> to the second connector of my present DVD burner.

> I am running out of hard drive space and rather than upgrade my hdd's
> from 120 GB main drive with a removable 250 GB that serves as storage
> and backup for my other family members, I have a great price on 2 SATA
> Maxtor Diamondmax 10 hdds that I would like to add for extra storage.

Personally I think that Maxtor is just adequate and that Seagate or
Samsung is preferrable in terms of noise, heat generation and reliability.

> Presently I back up each computer nightly with TrueImage 8, with a full
> backup every Sun AM and incremental backups nightly, rewritten each Sunday.

> I am thinking about three possible solutions:

> 1. Add two 300 GB hdd SATA hdd's to my desktop for storage of movies,
> music, and for backup. Since my computer only has 2 SATA receptacles, I
> would need to add a SATA controller card.

Unless you need these disks to be very fast, this should not be a
problem. Get an SATA II controller if you can. I have a Promise
SATAII 150 TX4. Seems to run fine, under Linux as well.

> 2. Add a remote NAS storage in the networking closet in my home, such
> as a Linksys NSLU2. It would allow for "remote" storage in the event
> that someone steals my computer, as it would be unlikely, since the
> house is alarmed, that they would be able to find the NAS by the time
> the police responded. The unit allows for attachment of two external
> USB hdd's. I am not sure how slow the data access would be, though. On
> the other hand, the unit would be mainly for storage.

Here you should think about things like network security and cooling.
Personally I would rather use a Linux Box I maintain and secure myself
than an appliance where I do not know how well maintained the software
is (the NSLU2 is a small Linux box I believe). But I am comfortable
with maintaining a Linux installation, so probably a NSLU2 would be a good
choice if you are not. Just make sure it is not visible to the outside
of your home network by filtering all external traffic to it in
your firewall. That should give reasonable protection.

> 3. Now that my daughter is off to college and left her desktop, I have
> a spare computer running XP and could set up the new drives as shared
> drives, essentially adding attached storage. Her motherboard is an older
> ASUS motherboard, CUSL2, and I would have to purchase a card to allow
> for adding the new SATA drives.

> If adding a SATA controller card is an option (and I say IF only because
> I do not know how buggy they are), then I would appreciate suggestions
> as to which cards I should consider.

See above. Hovwever I have not really used the Promise under Windows.
Under Linux I have a disk with several partitions in RAID1 with another
disk. Absolutely no problems so far.

> I would also appreciate if someone who has the experience and
> understanding could comment about how much option #2 would slow down
> data transmission compared to having a hdd directly attached to a system
> internally. Would a setup in #2 work over a network to, at some time in
> the future, stream video to a home theater

2.: 100Mbps, i.e. a realistic upper transmission speed of 10MB/s,
if your network is not otherwise loaded. You gain a bit in access
time from additional bufferinf in the machine and you may lose
a bit because of protocol overhead.

Direct attached you can expect something like 3-6 times this
throughput, depending on disk and disk zone. Access time will
be comparable, maybe a bit faster.

Arno
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jtpryan

External


Since: Sep 19, 2005
Posts: 8



(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:57 am
Post subject: Re: Need help thinking through additional storage options for home network [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Ken,

Why not use a Promise Raid controller configured for RAID 5, and
attach 3 300 Gb drives to it to get the 600 Gb you want? That way you
would have the redundancy of the extra drive. If it were me, I don't
even think I would bother with the backup in this scenerio, but I guess
that depends on just how critical the data is.

-Jim
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Ken

External


Since: Jul 31, 2005
Posts: 27



(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:26 am
Post subject: Re: Need help thinking through additional storage options for home [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

jtpryan.RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote:
> Ken,
>
> Why not use a Promise Raid controller configured for RAID 5, and
> attach 3 300 Gb drives to it to get the 600 Gb you want? That way you
> would have the redundancy of the extra drive. If it were me, I don't
> even think I would bother with the backup in this scenerio, but I guess
> that depends on just how critical the data is.
>
> -Jim
>
Jim,

Thanks for your suggestion. Your setup would certainly be reasonable
and affordable. I had not considered it because I am not familiar with
RAID beyond the "RAID" 0 (striping) which I had done in NT4 and RAID1
that comes with my mb. I assume that RAID 5 is not difficult to set up
and I think that it is very clever mathematics with being able to
restore data because of the parity bits.

Here are a few simple questions:

1.What is the least/most number of drives that can be used in a RAID 5
array?

2.How does one determine the amount of capacity that one will derive
from the drives? I assume it is the size of an individual drive.

3. Do all the drives have to be the same manufacturer/model or just the
same capacity?

4. Do you have a recommendation for which Promise Controller works
reliably?


Thanks
Ken K
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