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megapixels --- how many is enough?

 
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th54

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Since: Jan 09, 2005
Posts: 5



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:35 am
Post subject: megapixels --- how many is enough?
Archived from groups: alt>comp>periphs>dcameras (more info?)

I'm planning to buy my 1st digital camera within a month. I've arrived at
the conclusion that 3 mp is enough due to the fact that I plan to do a lot
of emailing my pictures, and emailing large (more than a MB or 2) pics can
be problematic.
My question for this group is --- does anyone ever find that they need more
megapixels? If so, what circumstances? Also, are there any reasons NOT to
buy a Canon Powershot A70 or A75?

 >> Stay informed about: megapixels --- how many is enough? 
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CSM11

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Since: Nov 22, 2003
Posts: 151



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:35 am
Post subject: Re: megapixels --- how many is enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Tom H" <th54 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KT8Ed.29091$Xk.3259@pd7tw3no...
 > I'm planning to buy my 1st digital camera within a month. I've arrived at
 > the conclusion that 3 mp is enough due to the fact that I plan to do a lot
 > of emailing my pictures, and emailing large (more than a MB or 2) pics can
 > be problematic.
 > My question for this group is --- does anyone ever find that they need
more
 > megapixels? If so, what circumstances? Also, are there any reasons NOT
to
 > buy a Canon Powershot A70 or A75?
 >
 >
As time goes by you will find the there is never enough Megapixels.

But how much resolution is practical, depends on your application.
If you want 8 X 10 prints, then you need a camera that will give around 7.2
megapixels. But if you are shooting for 4 x 6 prints, then you only need
around 2.16 Megapixels.

For Emailing, 3 megapixels is overkill.
1024 x 768 resolution is plenty for Email. 1024 x 768 is 0.7 megapixels.

--
CSM1
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.carlmcmillan.com" target="_blank">http://www.carlmcmillan.com</a>
--<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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user878

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Since: Dec 25, 2004
Posts: 12



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:51 am
Post subject: Re: megapixels --- how many is enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 11:50:02 GMT, "Tom H" <th54.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:

 >I'm planning to buy my 1st digital camera within a month. I've arrived at
 >the conclusion that 3 mp is enough due to the fact that I plan to do a lot
 >of emailing my pictures, and emailing large (more than a MB or 2) pics can
 >be problematic.
 >My question for this group is --- does anyone ever find that they need more
 >megapixels? If so, what circumstances? Also, are there any reasons NOT to
 >buy a Canon Powershot A70 or A75?
 >

I like your take on this. 3.1 mp creates huge files that have to be
resized for my email friends. I try to send 800x600 max and my camera
software does that easily.

But sometimes I wish I had a 6mp camera so I can crop the picture and
still get a decent print of what I am cropping. I wish I had a
million bucks too.

PJ<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Impmon

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Since: Jun 22, 2004
Posts: 154



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:19 pm
Post subject: Re: megapixels --- how many is enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 11:50:02 GMT, "Tom H" <th54.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:

 >My question for this group is --- does anyone ever find that they need more
 >megapixels? If so, what circumstances?

For printing, higher mega provides better looking picture and can be
printed on larger prints. 3 mega is great for 6x4 and can look decent
on full page. Most camera usually offers option for taking smaller
pictures like 640x480 for web and email.
--
To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Rolf Egil Sølvik2

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Since: Feb 18, 2004
Posts: 70



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:35 pm
Post subject: Re: megapixels --- how many is enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 11:50:02 GMT, "Tom H" <th54.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:

 >I'm planning to buy my 1st digital camera within a month. I've arrived at
 >the conclusion that 3 mp is enough due to the fact that I plan to do a lot
 >of emailing my pictures, and emailing large (more than a MB or 2) pics can
 >be problematic.
 >My question for this group is --- does anyone ever find that they need more
 >megapixels? If so, what circumstances? Also, are there any reasons NOT to
 >buy a Canon Powershot A70 or A75?

More megapixels (MP) is always better, but more pixels on the
same-size CCD will give you more noise in the pictures.

The Canon PowerShot A-series models you mention aren't as fast to
shoot with as say a Casio EX-Z40 - had I known my A60 would be so
much slower than the reported numbers on the A70, I would have waited
a bit longer...

My father got the EX-Z40 for his birthday and it shoots a lot faster
(no delay from pressing the button until a picture is taken) but it
tends to use a (too) high ISO setting and getting the above-mentioned
noise in a higher degree than with my A60.

There are small and big programs available for money (or no money)
that will shrink your 3+ MP pictures to a size more common with
fullscreen viewing on monitors (just about 1 MP or so).

The free programs GIMP or (the less advanced, but more user-friendly)
IrfanView will do that just fine - even cut out the central portion
of the picture if you did not frame the shot like you wanted...<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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asfdaf

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Since: Jan 07, 2005
Posts: 7



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:35 pm
Post subject: Re: megapixels --- how many is enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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 >
 > The free programs GIMP or (the less advanced, but more user-friendly)
 > IrfanView will do that just fine - even cut out the central portion
 > of the picture if you did not frame the shot like you wanted...

XP power tools has abuilt in Picture resizer... 3mb to 500k in one right
click of a mouse<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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asfdaf

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Since: Jan 07, 2005
Posts: 7



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 1:35 pm
Post subject: Re: megapixels --- how many is enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Blaze" <asfdaf.TakeThisOut@aff.com> wrote in message
news:ksdEd.119$IW2.10@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
 >
  >>
  >> The free programs GIMP or (the less advanced, but more user-friendly)
  >> IrfanView will do that just fine - even cut out the central portion
  >> of the picture if you did not frame the shot like you wanted...
 >
 > XP power tools has abuilt in Picture resizer... 3mb to 500k in one right
 > click of a mouse
 >

Also I have found the sony Cybershot is a very quick picture taker<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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nothanx

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Since: Dec 25, 2004
Posts: 35



(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 5:41 pm
Post subject: Re: megapixels --- how many is enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Get 5 mp and you will not be replacing the camera in year because it is old
technology.

"Tom H" <th54 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KT8Ed.29091$Xk.3259@pd7tw3no...
 > I'm planning to buy my 1st digital camera within a month. I've arrived at
 > the conclusion that 3 mp is enough due to the fact that I plan to do a lot
 > of emailing my pictures, and emailing large (more than a MB or 2) pics can
 > be problematic.
 > My question for this group is --- does anyone ever find that they need
more
 > megapixels? If so, what circumstances? Also, are there any reasons NOT
to
 > buy a Canon Powershot A70 or A75?
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: megapixels --- how many is enough? 
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kirk4

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Since: Jan 13, 2005
Posts: 6



(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:48 pm
Post subject: Re: megapixels --- how many is enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

The lens can be as important as the Megapixel. They say you need 7 MP or
above for 8x10 prints.

I have a Canon Digital Rebel and purchased a very nice ESM lens for it. I
have been printing with and Epson 2200 and have printed 8-1/2 x 11 and you
can't find any pixelation at all. I have even printed a good print that was
taken in nice light up to 11x19 and there is very minimal pixelation. In
fact, if you weren't told it was digital, you wouldn't even notice that it
was a photographic print.

I doubt that could be done with a point and click 6 MP digital camera with a
small built in lens.

Kirk

"Tom H" <th54.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KT8Ed.29091$Xk.3259@pd7tw3no...
 > I'm planning to buy my 1st digital camera within a month. I've arrived at
 > the conclusion that 3 mp is enough due to the fact that I plan to do a lot
 > of emailing my pictures, and emailing large (more than a MB or 2) pics can
 > be problematic.
 > My question for this group is --- does anyone ever find that they need
 > more megapixels? If so, what circumstances? Also, are there any reasons
 > NOT to buy a Canon Powershot A70 or A75?
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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th541

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Since: Jan 13, 2005
Posts: 3



(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:35 pm
Post subject: Re: megapixels --- how many is enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"kirk_" <kirk DeleteThis @1st.net> wrote in message
news:10udk4ufq2o64bb@corp.supernews.com...
 > The lens can be as important as the Megapixel.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Really? Are you familiar with the Canon Powershot A70/5, Kirk? How good is
the stock lens with the A70/5 in your opinion?
I've already asked this NG about the A70/5s capability to use additional
lenses and it seems that it can be done, but you need to buy an adapter for
around $20.
What lens would you recommend, why, and roughly how much would it cost?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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kirk4

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Since: Jan 13, 2005
Posts: 6



(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:36 pm
Post subject: Re: megapixels --- how many is enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Tom,

I am not familiar with the Canon Powershot A70/5. I had an old Fujifilm
1.2-MP that recently died. It was old and had been expensive when it was
new. The Canon Rebel was one we purchased for the Business to replace a
Nikon 35mm Film camera.

I have recently been checking small digitals for my own use and have been
looking at the Pentax Optio SV.

The lens that we purchased for the Canon Rebel was the Canon EF 28-135mm
f/3.5-5.6 IS Zoom Lens
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.canogacamera.com/e/env/0001vQyhFHUZboI6wc7x4h7/price_list/canon_ef_lenszoom.html?link=-DD-/info_pages/cam_info.html&item=invnew:14202" target="_blank">http://www.canogacamera.com/e/env/0001vQyhFHUZboI6wc7x4h7/price_list/c...n_ef_le</a>

It has worked well here.

Kirk

"tom" <th54.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pOAFd.68556$Xk.14990@pd7tw3no...
 > "kirk_" <kirk.DeleteThis@1st.net> wrote in message
 > news:10udk4ufq2o64bb@corp.supernews.com...
  >> The lens can be as important as the Megapixel.
 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 >
 > Really? Are you familiar with the Canon Powershot A70/5, Kirk? How good
 > is the stock lens with the A70/5 in your opinion?
 > I've already asked this NG about the A70/5s capability to use additional
 > lenses and it seems that it can be done, but you need to buy an adapter
 > for around $20.
 > What lens would you recommend, why, and roughly how much would it cost?
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Bob5

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Since: Feb 26, 2004
Posts: 31



(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:35 pm
Post subject: Re: megapixels --- how many is enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <KT8Ed.29091$Xk.3259@pd7tw3no>, Tom H <th54.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

:megapixels? If so, what circumstances? Also, are there any reasons NOT to
:buy a Canon Powershot A70 or A75?

I bought my first digital cam a few months back...the Canon A75, and
have absolutely no regrets since. Takes great pics very easily and
like you, I'm mainly eMailing photos and not printing 8x10s or larger.
I have though taken some pics I took with it copied to CD down to a
self-service photo station and printed some 4x6 prints and they turned
out great...much better than I expected, and what I would have expected
from a much more expensive SLR non-digital camera.

The A75 can now be had for about $175 which is a great deal on a great
camera, IMHO.
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artistic

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Since: Jan 21, 2005
Posts: 1



(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:35 am
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Hi Tom,

I am new to this newsgroup, so I hope I am not stepping on any toes in
my replying to your posting.

How many MP are enough is somewhat a question like how much money is
enough, or how large a house is enough. It depends upon what quality
you are after and what you plan to do with it.

In general you will get a better quality image for emailing from
downsampling a higher resolution picture (taken on a higher resolution
sensor) than you will from a jpegged small resolution sensor.

However, there is no reason for overkill either. As someone already
mentioned, cramming more sensors on the same size image sensor means
each one has to be smaller, and that means they will be less sensitive
to light individually, and therefore nosier (more randomized artifacts).

So, then it comes down to either a larger sensor, or finding the sweet
point for your needs. Larger sensors cost a lot more, and are mainly
put in much more costly cameras, so that's probably not what you are
after. A three to four MP image sensor will allow you to not only make
email images which will be of good quality, but also produce a very good
4 x 6 snapshot, and an OK 5 x 7" print. For an 8 x 10, I suggest at
least a 4 (it will be somewhat soft) but moreso a 5-6 MP sensor.

Digital cameras are still evolving. New designs in terms of sensor
shape and size, as well as new color matrixes are being introduced. New
compression methods are being developed, and certainly more light
sensitivity is being worked on. Sony, for instance, has added a second
green to the standard RGB Bayer matrix, because greens tend to be harder
to capture accurately. Fuji has gone with a hexagonal sensor shape to
try to eliminate some of the diagonal line artifacting and on some of
their cameras gone to two sensor sizes per location to help avoid the
common problem of burn out of the image area in high lighting
situations. This has improved the overall contrast range of the images.

There are other features to consider as well. How high res is the LCD
screen, and how large is it, is the screen articulated so you can move
it to avoid direct sun on it, which otherwise could make it difficult to
view, and also allowing you to change its angle for above head or below
waist images? What type of memory does the camera use (Fuji, Olympus and
Sony use proprietary memory that costs up to twice as much as the more
standard Compact Flash or SD/MMD? Then there are issues like lens
quality, shutter speeds, features, etc.

For me, having played with less costly digital cameras, I find a number
of considerations:

1) Optical zoom ratio is quite limited on these smaller cameras. Most
digital cameras in the mid price range have 2.5 to 3.5 X zooms built in.
Many people find this restrictive. They are often equivalent to about
35mm to 90mm in 35mm film. The wide angle is adequate, but a 90mm lens
is really not much more than portrait telephoto. If you are then going
to use additional lens, you may find they degrade the quality, may
distort or vignette the image in certain zoom positions. They may cut
some light, and they can be costly, to the point where a camera with a
larger zoom lens may be a better value.

2) Aperture is too small. To keep these camera small and inexpensive,
the manufacturers often use a lens with a small aperture. On many, the
lens aperture decreases with zooming. As mentioned earlier, small image
sensor is already at a loss due to noise. Noise is a product of low
light levels, so a smaller aperture lens means more noise. Most
digicams of the type we are speaking rely on good lighting, and when
not, a weak flash to fill in. So, try finding a camera that has a
larger aperture and that is constant throughout zoom range. A f/2.8
is good, lower still is better (2.5, 2.0).

3) Look at the minimum ISO setting the camera has. If it is 160 or 200,
chances are that sensor chip is going to be nosier than one which offers
50 or 80 iso as the lowest sensitivity. In general, higher ISO numbers
will mean nosier images. I'm not suggesting the cameras shouldn't have
higher ISO options, for taking pictures in lower light, and to decrease
camera shake, but the lower ISO available as an option is often an
indicator of an image chip wit higher sensitivity, and if you can use a
tripod with that lower ISO setting, for instance in a low lighted scenic
or night shot, you will get a less noisy result

4) Knobs are nice. One thing that keeps cost down on digital cameras is
having the buttons on the camera have many multiple functions and use
nested menus which you read off the LCD screen. Having a few knobs can
not only speed up some of the most important selections, but they make
it more like a film camera which is more comfortable for most people still.

5) Battery power is critical. I had one digital camera that used NiMH
batteries (2 AA) and sucked them dry in minutes. I had to carry around
5 sets for one light day's shooting, and was continually recharging
them. Another camera I use has a much smaller Li-Ion battery that takes
up to 4 hours to charge, but allows me nearly 200 images with 25% flash,
or so. Although NiMH are convenient in that they are relatively cheap,
available most anywhere, unless the camera designer has been careful
with power consumption, Li-Ion (which are often proprietary and costly
if you need to replace them) tend to perform better. Check reviews for
average battery use, do not rely on manufacturers statements about this
as they tend to exaggerate.

6) Look at the LCD screen for brightness in bright sunlight. One which
you can adjust brightness on is best, or it may be too bright in dark
situations. It should be easy to read, high enough resolution to
determine how good an image looks and if it is in focus (most camera
have a zoom in feature, but it can take a while to implement).

7) Some of the newer models are beginning to offer some form of image
stabilization. This technology reduces camera shake in slow shutter
speed images. I have worked with a very small digital 4 MP camera for
several months, and I was amazed in spite of steady hands and the ease
to hold such a lightweight camera, how many of my images were blurry in
lower light situations if I did not want to use the inadequate flash
provided. These new image stabilization systems are amazingly good, in
part because the lenses in digital cameras and the image platform are
small and light, so the processors can respond very rapidly with little
problem.

Cool Speed of capture/lag time. Some cameras take too long (in my
opinion) to capture the image after the shutter is pressed. Some also
take a long time to write the picture to the memory card. It is a good
idea to get one with a burst option so you can take more than one
picture in a brief period, even while it is recording earlier images to
the memory.

9) Things like manual white balance, and less so on smaller cameras,
manual focus, are helpful. Some types of light and objects will tend to
be misinterpreted by either the auto white balance or the
focusing system, and it can put a crimp in your style if the camera
refuses to focus and take a picture because it keeps on misfocusing.
I found, for instance, that snow images using any of the preset white
balance setting did not give me clean and neutral snow color. I had to
balance it manually.

10) One feature I really liked, was a panoramic feature that allowed me
to take a series of images next to one another to create a wide sweeping
image, that could be either automatically or manually stitched together
in software.

In terms of brands, that's a hard one. In general, I think camera
manufacturers tend to make more user friendly cameras with more
film-camera like features. From what I have seen, Canon, Nikon, Fuji
and Olympus, Konica-Minolta, Pentax all have contenders in that price
and model type. But every company from camera, to film (Kodak, Polaroid)
to consumer electronics (Panasonic, Acer, Casio, etc, etc.) are making
digital cameras now. Each feel they have the right to claim it as their
territory.

To answer your question about the A70/A75, these are good cameras
overall from those I know who have owned them. Overall, Canon makes
good digital cameras. But look over the list above and it may help you
to consider some of the features that are potentially important for you.

I hope this is helpful.

Art


Tom H wrote:

 > I'm planning to buy my 1st digital camera within a month. I've arrived at
 > the conclusion that 3 mp is enough due to the fact that I plan to do a lot
 > of emailing my pictures, and emailing large (more than a MB or 2) pics can
 > be problematic.
 > My question for this group is --- does anyone ever find that they need more
 > megapixels? If so, what circumstances? Also, are there any reasons NOT to
 > buy a Canon Powershot A70 or A75?
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Mike Hide

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Since: Oct 02, 2004
Posts: 6



(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:02 pm
Post subject: Re: megapixels --- how many is enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Tom H" <th54.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KT8Ed.29091$Xk.3259@pd7tw3no...
 > I'm planning to buy my 1st digital camera within a month. I've arrived at
 > the conclusion that 3 mp is enough due to the fact that I plan to do a lot
 > of emailing my pictures, and emailing large (more than a MB or 2) pics can
 > be problematic.
 > My question for this group is --- does anyone ever find that they need
more
 > megapixels? If so, what circumstances? Also, are there any reasons NOT
to
 > buy a Canon Powershot A70 or A75?
 >
I just got a new camera and as far as image quality goes I would like the
best I can get . By that I mean very infrequently I would like to be able to
make reasonably large prints of some of my [by accident most often] better
shots and also at times email some of my shot of interest to others . The
latter I can always send as low DPI JPEGS.

Based on the above seems to me to get high quality one needs lots of
megapixels or in my case no so many mega pixels and a good zoom lens . The
high numober of pixels allows one to make sustantial crops of the original
image and still be able to enough pixels to do a large print . Doing the
same an image with less pixels results in a lower quality print .

On the other hand having a good zoom lens ,say 12 to 1 allows one to zoom in
on the area of interest and effectively the lens in this case does the
cropping . this way one still ends up with the same quality image
particularly if the camera is tripod mounted ot perhaps has the antishake
feature built in .

This my logic ,It seems to work as with age comes a little more shake than
in earlier times and it does come with a subtantial economy....mjh<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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