Welcome to PCForumz.com!
FAQFAQ      ProfileProfile    Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in

motherboard monitor

 
   Hardware Problem Solving Community! (Home) -> Overclocking RSS
Next:  Newbie builder need help  
Author Message
0ne_Up

External


Since: Jul 02, 2004
Posts: 9



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:59 pm
Post subject: motherboard monitor
Archived from groups: alt>comp>hardware>overclocking (more info?)

Hi,
I was just browsing the Motherboard Monitor 5 settings, when I spotted the
following crazy option: 'low temperature warning'.
This sounds weird to me, I always thought 'the colder the better!' Can
anyone explain this???

 >> Stay informed about: motherboard monitor 
Back to top
Login to vote
misfit7

External


Since: Oct 01, 2004
Posts: 31



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 3:47 pm
Post subject: Re: motherboard monitor [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

0ne_Up wrote:
 > Hi,
 > I was just browsing the Motherboard Monitor 5 settings, when I
 > spotted the following crazy option: 'low temperature warning'.
 > This sounds weird to me, I always thought 'the colder the better!' Can
 > anyone explain this???

Maybe if the machine is designed to be always doing a certain CPU intensive
task (SETI comes to mind but there would be other things) then it could be
used to let you know the proggy wasn't running on a headless networked box?

Or if you were using a refrigeration cooler like a Prometia or a Vapochill
it could be used to tell you if you have it set *too* cold, wasting power?

Colder the better to a point. Not if it's costing you an extra couple of
bucks a day in electricity that aren't needed.
--
~misfit~<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

 >> Stay informed about: motherboard monitor 
Back to top
Login to vote
Michael Brown

External


Since: Jul 22, 2004
Posts: 367



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:15 pm
Post subject: Re: motherboard monitor [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

0ne_Up wrote:
 > Hi,
 > I was just browsing the Motherboard Monitor 5 settings, when I
 > spotted the following crazy option: 'low temperature warning'.
 > This sounds weird to me, I always thought 'the colder the better!' Can
 > anyone explain this???

IIRC, if you get the chip really cold (-50 deg C or so) the conductivity of
the die (though not the interconnet of course) has dropped down
significantly compared to when it's at room temperature. This results in
instability as the transistors can no longer switch fast enough. The problem
first occurs in rarely used parts of the chips (which don't produce so much
heat, so are cooler than the "die" temperature). People running recharged
phase-change systems often have a "minimum" temperature set on the
compressor control, and have reported instability if the chips get too cold
(though more voltage usually fixes things Smile ).

A bigger problem is due to mechanical issues. The colder you get the CPU,
the more brittle it gets, and hence the more susceptible to hairline cracks
from vibration (from compressors, etc). This especially applies to solder
joints, though these are fairly minimal on the CPU itself. This obviously
isn't an immediate effect, but it does shorten the lifespan of the device
unless significant care is taken to avoid vibrations. Also, the chip is made
of many different materials each with different temperature coefficients of
expansion. So as the chip is cooled, different parts of the chip change size
at different rates, resulting in increased mechanical stress on the chip. I
don't think this latter one is very bad, though I'm open to corrections Smile

Finally, you get problems with things around the CPU if you run it cold
enough. I'm not sure what motherboard manufacturers use nowadays, but most
electrolytic capacitors (the big ones) used to have water-based dielectrics
in them. Cool them down sufficiently and the dielectrics would freeze, with
a similar effect to leaving a bottle of water in the freezer too long. This
may not apply to modern boards. Finally, if your board is getting quite
cold, then you increase the risk of solder failure as mentioned above.

--
Michael Brown
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.emboss.co.nz" target="_blank">www.emboss.co.nz</a> : OOS/RSI software and more Smile
Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: motherboard monitor 
Back to top
Login to vote
0ne_Up

External


Since: Jul 02, 2004
Posts: 9



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:15 pm
Post subject: Re: motherboard monitor [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

And someone would cool his system to -200c with Liquid Nitrogen...
"Michael Brown" <see DeleteThis @signature.below> schreef in bericht
news:orqad.12164$JQ4.761871@news.xtra.co.nz...
 > 0ne_Up wrote:
  >> Hi,
  >> I was just browsing the Motherboard Monitor 5 settings, when I
  >> spotted the following crazy option: 'low temperature warning'.
  >> This sounds weird to me, I always thought 'the colder the better!' Can
  >> anyone explain this???
 >
 > IIRC, if you get the chip really cold (-50 deg C or so) the conductivity
 > of
 > the die (though not the interconnet of course) has dropped down
 > significantly compared to when it's at room temperature. This results in
 > instability as the transistors can no longer switch fast enough. The
 > problem
 > first occurs in rarely used parts of the chips (which don't produce so
 > much
 > heat, so are cooler than the "die" temperature). People running recharged
 > phase-change systems often have a "minimum" temperature set on the
 > compressor control, and have reported instability if the chips get too
 > cold
 > (though more voltage usually fixes things Smile ).
 >
 > A bigger problem is due to mechanical issues. The colder you get the CPU,
 > the more brittle it gets, and hence the more susceptible to hairline
 > cracks
 > from vibration (from compressors, etc). This especially applies to solder
 > joints, though these are fairly minimal on the CPU itself. This obviously
 > isn't an immediate effect, but it does shorten the lifespan of the device
 > unless significant care is taken to avoid vibrations. Also, the chip is
 > made
 > of many different materials each with different temperature coefficients
 > of
 > expansion. So as the chip is cooled, different parts of the chip change
 > size
 > at different rates, resulting in increased mechanical stress on the chip.
 > I
 > don't think this latter one is very bad, though I'm open to corrections Smile
 >
 > Finally, you get problems with things around the CPU if you run it cold
 > enough. I'm not sure what motherboard manufacturers use nowadays, but most
 > electrolytic capacitors (the big ones) used to have water-based
 > dielectrics
 > in them. Cool them down sufficiently and the dielectrics would freeze,
 > with
 > a similar effect to leaving a bottle of water in the freezer too long.
 > This
 > may not apply to modern boards. Finally, if your board is getting quite
 > cold, then you increase the risk of solder failure as mentioned above.
 >
 > --
 > Michael Brown
 > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.emboss.co.nz" target="_blank">www.emboss.co.nz</a> : OOS/RSI software and more Smile
 > Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: motherboard monitor 
Back to top
Login to vote
Michael Brown

External


Since: Jul 22, 2004
Posts: 367



(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:57 am
Post subject: Re: motherboard monitor [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

0ne_Up wrote:
 > And someone would cool his system to -200c with Liquid Nitrogen...

I've never seen someone who actually did it with direct-on-die liquid
nitrogen, and I wouldn't be surprised if the thermal shock of pouring liquid
nitrogen onto the die would shatter it. I've seen a non-pyrex glass beaker
shattered by liquid nitrogen (as a demonstation that you should check before
you pour), so it's certainly possible. All the LN2 articles I've seen use a
copper plate (or more often even a copper heatsink), so the die itself
doesn't get anywhere near -200 deg C. It's also mitigated by running very
high voltages as I mentioned, which most of these sort of people do.

[...]

--
Michael Brown
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.emboss.co.nz" target="_blank">www.emboss.co.nz</a> : OOS/RSI software and more Smile
Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: motherboard monitor 
Back to top
Login to vote
0ne_Up

External


Since: Jul 02, 2004
Posts: 9



(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:57 am
Post subject: Re: motherboard monitor [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

you're right, all guys use a copper plate, but still the actual CPU
temperature can be -140.
some people even achieved 200% overclocks with ln2...
"Michael Brown" <see.TakeThisOut@signature.below> schreef in bericht
news:Azuad.12280$JQ4.765975@news.xtra.co.nz...
 > 0ne_Up wrote:
  >> And someone would cool his system to -200c with Liquid Nitrogen...
 >
 > I've never seen someone who actually did it with direct-on-die liquid
 > nitrogen, and I wouldn't be surprised if the thermal shock of pouring
 > liquid
 > nitrogen onto the die would shatter it. I've seen a non-pyrex glass beaker
 > shattered by liquid nitrogen (as a demonstation that you should check
 > before
 > you pour), so it's certainly possible. All the LN2 articles I've seen use
 > a
 > copper plate (or more often even a copper heatsink), so the die itself
 > doesn't get anywhere near -200 deg C. It's also mitigated by running very
 > high voltages as I mentioned, which most of these sort of people do.
 >
 > [...]
 >
 > --
 > Michael Brown
 > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.emboss.co.nz" target="_blank">www.emboss.co.nz</a> : OOS/RSI software and more Smile
 > Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: motherboard monitor 
Back to top
Login to vote
Clob

External


Since: Oct 20, 2004
Posts: 51



(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:17 pm
Post subject: Re: motherboard monitor [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

How long would the liquid nitrogen last before it has to be replinished?


"0ne_Up" <0neup.RemoveThis@tiscali.nl> wrote in message
news:416a788c$0$44072$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl...
 > you're right, all guys use a copper plate, but still the actual CPU
 > temperature can be -140.
 > some people even achieved 200% overclocks with ln2...
 > "Michael Brown" <see.RemoveThis@signature.below> schreef in bericht
 > news:Azuad.12280$JQ4.765975@news.xtra.co.nz...
  >> 0ne_Up wrote:
   >>> And someone would cool his system to -200c with Liquid Nitrogen...
  >>
  >> I've never seen someone who actually did it with direct-on-die liquid
  >> nitrogen, and I wouldn't be surprised if the thermal shock of pouring
  >> liquid
  >> nitrogen onto the die would shatter it. I've seen a non-pyrex glass
  >> beaker
  >> shattered by liquid nitrogen (as a demonstation that you should check
  >> before
  >> you pour), so it's certainly possible. All the LN2 articles I've seen use
  >> a
  >> copper plate (or more often even a copper heatsink), so the die itself
  >> doesn't get anywhere near -200 deg C. It's also mitigated by running very
  >> high voltages as I mentioned, which most of these sort of people do.
  >>
  >> [...]
  >>
  >> --
  >> Michael Brown
  >> <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.emboss.co.nz" target="_blank">www.emboss.co.nz</a> : OOS/RSI software and more Smile
  >> Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open
  >>
  >>
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: motherboard monitor 
Back to top
Login to vote
Display posts from previous:   
Related Topics:
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ or Dual AMD Athlon XP 2800+ - First of all, sorry for crossposting... What would you suggest between Athlon 64 3200+ and Dual Athlon XP 2800+? I mean, which will be more usable in real life (Video processing, games, and other high-processor-dependent)? I'll buy it next week so any....

High-end configuration... - What would be your high-end configuration? CPU, MB, RAM, HDD, Graphic Card. Without Case, PSU, and such... I was thinking about this: AMD Athlon 64 3200+ ATI X800XT RAM, 1GB, DDR, PC-3500, 433 MHz, KINGMAX (is Kingmax best brand?) DUAL HDD MAXTOR 160..

Most processing power/Watt - Something I've been thinking about recently, of the CPUs in the 700Mhz and upwards range, which CPU, or family of CPUs gives the most for the least, electrical-consumption-wise? I'm running a few machines for SETI and am on a budget. I have a bit of..

2x DDR 512MB PC4000 (500MHz) KINGMAX Hardcore - Here is the rest of my configuration before question: Barton 2500+ OC'd @ 3200+ Memory from subject MB Asus A7N8X-X, 2x200 MHz FSB Radeon 9600 Pro 128MB So, I was wondering why do I get so low at Sandra Memory Benchmark? It's Int: 2970/93%, Buff:..

how much can I up the voltage on my corsair ram - Here are my specs: p4c 2.8 Ghz 1gig corsair DDR400 (dual channel kit) CAS Lat 2. Abit Is7 Mobo Radeon X800 pro now previously I had this pc overclocked to 3.2 ghz with 512 meg of Geil ram. but the geil ram was running at 5:4 cpu:RAM FSB ratio. the..
   Hardware Problem Solving Community! (Home) -> Overclocking All times are: Pacific Time (US & Canada) (change)
Page 1 of 1

 
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



[ Contact us | Terms of Service/Privacy Policy ]