proper grounding

>The typical outlet looks like the following and is available
>from most hardware stores for about $0.40 each. Ironically
>it often costs more per, to buy a 10-pack than individual
>outlets.
> If your don't have the ground socket, you might consider
>replacing them or having someone else do it if you don't
>feel qualified.

I know what a grounded socket looks like.. I'm guessing the silver screw at
the bottom left is ground ? The sockets I have seen are missing this screw,
but they ARE 3 hole outlets.. (there is a ground socket that accepts a 3
pin plug, but nowhere to attach a ground wire)

Chris
 >> Stay informed about: proper grounding 

Skeleton Man wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I went ahead and bought a new surge protector as per the lightning
> discussion, but it indicates that it's not grounded !
>
> The outlet itself is 3 prong, but the ground wire from the mains is screwed
> to the metal box.. there is no ground screw on the outlet itself!
>
> I have never seen an outlet in Canada/USA that has a ground terminal..
> everyone always says just connect the ground wire to the box, so I presume
> the metal tabs that screw the outlet to its box are supposed to provide the
> ground ? (and then from the metal box to ground wire)
>
> If this is correct it seems an awefully risky/stupid system.. I'm from
> Australia originally and ALL our outlets use a ground screw.. there are of
> course two wire cords for double insultated appliances, but there is NO such
> thing as a two prong, non grounded outlet.. (at least not that I have
> seen)..
>
> I was thinking maybe it's the whole 120 vs 240v thing, but that would defy
> logic because you have twice the current @ 120v..
>
> Chris
>

Note that electrical wiring varies in different countries!!!

Some outlet boxes aren't even metal, so they are not necessarily
grounded. There should be a green ground wire as one of the three
conductors in the cable from the distribution box. Someone MAY have
installed an improperly wired three prong outlet were there was
originally a two prong one as a poor substitute for using adapters for
three prong or polarized two prong plugs.

Ground is supposed to have the SAME electrical potential as the neutral.
A connection between either of the hot conductors and neutral provides
120V at 60 Hz. Since the two hot conductors are 1/120 of a second out of
phase, connecting between them (in household applications typically for
an electric range, water heater, clothes dryer or air conditioner/heat
pump) provides 240V (also at 60 Hz).

HIGHLY recommend the use of one of the inexpensive outlet testers
available in many North American home improvement centers to make sure
there are proper grounds in ALL your three prong outlets and to verify
the hot and neutral wires aren't reversed.
 >> Stay informed about: proper grounding 

Skeleton Man wrote:
>> The typical outlet looks like the following and is available
>>from most hardware stores for about $0.40 each. Ironically
>> it often costs more per, to buy a 10-pack than individual
>> outlets.
>> If your don't have the ground socket, you might consider
>> replacing them or having someone else do it if you don't
>> feel qualified.
>
> I know what a grounded socket looks like.. I'm guessing the silver screw at
> the bottom left is ground ? The sockets I have seen are missing this screw,
> but they ARE 3 hole outlets.. (there is a ground socket that accepts a 3
> pin plug, but nowhere to attach a ground wire)
>
> Chris
>

There is an alternative style here. The brass plate at the
top, implies they are picking up ground from the metal box.
So the metal box would need the green wire connected to it.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/31PX3MQ17CL._SS500_.jpg

There are some alternative grounding schemes mentioned here.
Perhaps the code and method has changed over the years. The
introduction of plastic boxes would certainly change the
requirements on the receptacle design. They mention a pigtail
for ground, implying it is the installer's responsibility to
ensure ground is present, when mixing the wrong kind of component
parts.

http://www.ehow.com/how_117546_replace-receptacle.html

Paul
 >> Stay informed about: proper grounding 

"Skeleton Man" wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I went ahead and bought a new surge protector as per the lightning
> discussion, but it indicates that it's not grounded !
>
> The outlet itself is 3 prong, but the ground wire from the mains is
> screwed
> to the metal box.. there is no ground screw on the outlet itself!

Drill a small hole through the floor and run a copper wire (bare is okay)
over to a metal cold water pipe. Connect the wire to the metal cold water
pipe with the appropriate clamp device (a couple of bucks). Connect the
other end of the copper wire to the ground screw in your outlet, and you now
have a grounded outlet.

Jon
 >> Stay informed about: proper grounding 

"Skeleton Man" <invalid.TakeThisOut@guestwho.com> wrote in message
news:hP6dnQ_NCKmiKODbnZ2dnUVZ_oavnZ2d@wightman.ca...
> Hi guys,
>
> I went ahead and bought a new surge protector as per the lightning
> discussion, but it indicates that it's not grounded !
>
> The outlet itself is 3 prong, but the ground wire from the mains is
> screwed
> to the metal box.. there is no ground screw on the outlet itself!
>
> I have never seen an outlet in Canada/USA that has a ground terminal..
> everyone always says just connect the ground wire to the box, so I
> presume
> the metal tabs that screw the outlet to its box are supposed to
> provide the
> ground ? (and then from the metal box to ground wire)
>
> If this is correct it seems an awefully risky/stupid system.. I'm
> from
> Australia originally and ALL our outlets use a ground screw.. there
> are of
> course two wire cords for double insultated appliances, but there is
> NO such
> thing as a two prong, non grounded outlet.. (at least not that I have
> seen)..
>
> I was thinking maybe it's the whole 120 vs 240v thing, but that would
> defy
> logic because you have twice the current @ 120v..


So when you remove the cover plate and use a flashlight to look at the
cable coming into the box, does it have 2 or 3 wires? If 3 wires, where
do they go? I suppose only 2 of a 3-wire cable may actually enter the
box and the ground is outside the box and attached to the box but that
would only work if the box were metal instead of plastic (so you would
have to unscrew the metal box to look to see if a ground wire went to
it, and hopefully it isn't nailed into a stud).
 >> Stay informed about: proper grounding 

"Jon Danniken" <jonREMOVETHISdanniken DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5e7pj6F352chhU1@mid.individual.net...
> "Skeleton Man" wrote:
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> I went ahead and bought a new surge protector as per the lightning
>> discussion, but it indicates that it's not grounded !
>>
>> The outlet itself is 3 prong, but the ground wire from the mains is
>> screwed
>> to the metal box.. there is no ground screw on the outlet itself!
>
> Drill a small hole through the floor and run a copper wire (bare is okay)
> over to a metal cold water pipe. Connect the wire to the metal cold water
> pipe with the appropriate clamp device (a couple of bucks). Connect the
> other end of the copper wire to the ground screw in your outlet, and you
> now have a grounded outlet.
>
> Jon

****Warning******

That is a very BAD idea, and would violate many building
codes. Your building/home should have a common grounding
point, where the power line enters.

Luck;
Ken
 >> Stay informed about: proper grounding 

"Ken Maltby" <kmaltby DeleteThis @sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:DeKdnRYyPvzdIuPbnZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "Jon Danniken" <jonREMOVETHISdanniken DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:5e7pj6F352chhU1@mid.individual.net...
>> "Skeleton Man" wrote:
>>> Hi guys,
>>>
>>> I went ahead and bought a new surge protector as per the lightning
>>> discussion, but it indicates that it's not grounded !
>>>
>>> The outlet itself is 3 prong, but the ground wire from the mains is
>>> screwed
>>> to the metal box.. there is no ground screw on the outlet itself!
>>
>> Drill a small hole through the floor and run a copper wire (bare is okay)
>> over to a metal cold water pipe. Connect the wire to the metal cold
>> water pipe with the appropriate clamp device (a couple of bucks).
>> Connect the other end of the copper wire to the ground screw in your
>> outlet, and you now have a grounded outlet.
>>
>> Jon
>
> ****Warning******
>
> That is a very BAD idea, and would violate many building
> codes. Your building/home should have a common grounding
> point, where the power line enters.
>
> Luck;
> Ken
True Ken,
I was almost killed when I grabbed an outside faucet to wash my hands after
installing carpet at a new house due to an electrician improperly using the
house water pipes as a ground.

The electrician had failed to keep up with the local building code changes.
Seems that a year or so the city in that area had switched to using a
plastic water line from the water main to two feet inside the basement, then
attached a water meter. From there the plumber had used copper water pipes
for the rest of the installation. A ground rod had not been installed by
the electrician outside the building and connected to both the ground lug
inside the circuit breaker box and the water pipes as per the "revised"
local building code.

At my request a city building inspector came out to the house to verify my
complaint about what had happened. This resulted in the building being
condemned and had the electrical meter removed pending the repair of the
wiring. They cancelled the license of the electrician who did the
installation and levied a six figure fine against electrician and the
company he worked for.

Every installation by that company going back three years were then
re-inspected by the city looking for similar problems.
 >> Stay informed about: proper grounding 

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 02:27:59 -0400, "Skeleton Man"
<invalid.DeleteThis@guestwho.com> wrote:

>>The typical outlet looks like the following and is available
>>from most hardware stores for about $0.40 each. Ironically
>>it often costs more per, to buy a 10-pack than individual
>>outlets.
>> If your don't have the ground socket, you might consider
>>replacing them or having someone else do it if you don't
>>feel qualified.
>
>I know what a grounded socket looks like..

Then I don't understand what you meant when you wrote:


>I have never seen an outlet in Canada/USA that has a ground terminal..


>everyone always says just connect the ground wire to the box, so I presume
>the metal tabs that screw the outlet to its box are supposed to provide the
>ground ? (and then from the metal box to ground wire)

It could, but the ground wire to the outlet is better. Over
time an outlet might work itself loose from the box, and
this outlet frame-screw-box-ground wire is bound to be
higher impedance (though not a lot in ideal situations).

>I'm guessing the silver screw at
>the bottom left is ground ?

Yes


>The sockets I have seen are missing this screw,
>but they ARE 3 hole outlets.. (there is a ground socket that accepts a 3
>pin plug, but nowhere to attach a ground wire)

Take a closer look at why it's not making electrical
connection to ground. Plug a lamp in to confirm power state
and flip the breaker/pull the fuse, take a multimeter and
check continuity/resistance... or just buy the $0.40 outlet
and install it.
 >> Stay informed about: proper grounding 

>There is an alternative style here. The brass plate at the
>top, implies they are picking up ground from the metal box.
>So the metal box would need the green wire connected to it.

>http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/31PX3MQ17CL._SS500_.jpg

That's exactly what I was talking about! (I thought I was going nuts when I
didn't see a ground screw on my outlets!!)

Not sure about the brass but it has metal tabs like that and the ground wire
attaches to the metal box. All the outlets here are wired like that, but my
surge protector tells me there's no ground connection.. (the ground wire is
definately attached to the box, and I followed the wiring all the way to the
breaker panel)

I don't have anything attached to ground that I could run an external ground
wire too either.. it would mean adding an extra wire all the way from the
outlet down into the basement onto a water pipe or something..

Chris
 >> Stay informed about: proper grounding 

>>I know what a grounded socket looks like..
>Then I don't understand what you meant when you wrote:
>>I have never seen an outlet in Canada/USA that has a ground terminal..

See Paul's post.. the style of outlet in the photo he posted is the same as
what I have.. no ground screw..

Chris
 >> Stay informed about: proper grounding 

I never thought, if I can get the style of outlet that kony posted, that
should solve my problem.. assuming the ground wire is ok..

All I should need to do is test for continuity from neutral to ground right
? (the two are tied together at the panel right?)

Stupid question here, but.. if neutral is wired to ground as a return path
for electricity, if you removed the ground wire from the fixture (so it's
only path to ground was through you) and held it, would you get zapped ?
(obviously while it has a quicker path to ground, it's not going to take the
more resistive path through you)

Chris
 >> Stay informed about: proper grounding 

"Ken Maltby" wrote:
> "Jon Danniken" wrote:
>>
>> Drill a small hole through the floor and run a copper wire (bare is okay)
>> over to a metal cold water pipe. Connect the wire to the metal cold
>> water pipe with the appropriate clamp device (a couple of bucks).
>> Connect the other end of the copper wire to the ground screw in your
>> outlet, and you now have a grounded outlet.
>>
>> Jon
>
> ****Warning******
>
> That is a very BAD idea, and would violate many building
> codes. Your building/home should have a common grounding
> point, where the power line enters.

Yes, it should, but older homes don't have grounded outlets. For such
houses, there is nothing wrong with grounding to a metal water pipe, that's
why they sell the damn clamps in the first place, duh.

Oh yeah, this only works when the metal pipe goes through the ground,
another duh.

Seriously, given the choice between no grounded outlet and an outlet
grounded to a water pipe, you just ground the outlet to a water pipe. It's
been done hundreds of thousands of times, and it works fine if you use some
common sense.

Jon
 >> Stay informed about: proper grounding 

>I was almost killed when I grabbed an outside faucet to wash my hands after
>installing carpet at a new house due to an electrician improperly using the
>house water pipes as a ground.
>The electrician had failed to keep up with the local building code changes.

>Seems that a year or so the city in that area had switched to using a
>plastic water line from the water main to two feet inside the basement,
then
>attached a water meter. From there the plumber had used copper water pipes
>for the rest of the installation.

If I understand right, the common ground for the mains (joined to neutral)
was connected to a section of the copper pipes, but because of the plastic
section the water pipe was not grounded at all ? (hence 120V running through
all your faucets).

Chris
 >> Stay informed about: proper grounding