router contains a built-in switch versus router without a ..

David H. Lipman wrote:
> From: "CJT" <abujlehc.RemoveThis@prodigy.net>
>
> < snip >
>
> |
> | yes (theoretically it could be a hub rather than a switch, but I doubt
> | anybody does that)
> |
>
> < snip >
>
> An Ethernet switch can NOT be a hub.

That's like saying red can't be green. I didn't say a hub could be a
switch. I said a hub could be combined with a router, just as a switch
can be combined with a router. But I doubt anybody does.

Hubs only re-time signals. Hubs are basically
> multi-port repeaters. Switches have active electronics to decide what MAC address packet
> goes to what port and have a cache to memorize MAC addresses. On an E-switch, each port is
> a collision domain. On a hub all ports are on the same collision domain. Therefore a
> E-switch can not be a hub and vice versa. This is not theory, it is a fact.
>
> As for the Linksys Routers they are all good. Albeit, I have yet to install a BEFSR41 v4.0
>
> You had one. I have installed many !
>
> I have installed numerous BEFSR41 v1, v2 and v3 Routers. No problems with any.
> I am presently using a BEFSR81, a business class Router that support QoS. I have installed
> all v1, v2 and v3 but just nearly as many as the BEFSR41 models.
>
> The BEFSR11 is a waste unless one already owns or plans to own a managed Ethernet switch.
>


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 >> Stay informed about: router contains a built-in switch versus router without a .. 

David H. Lipman wrote:
<snip>
>
> As for the Linksys Routers they are all good. Albeit, I have yet to install a BEFSR41 v4.0
>
> You had one. I have installed many !

I suppose YMMV. I had problems with mine. This was when they first
came out, and the firmware was pretty unstable (and, IMHO, buggy).
>
> I have installed numerous BEFSR41 v1, v2 and v3 Routers. No problems with any.
> I am presently using a BEFSR81, a business class Router that support QoS. I have installed
> all v1, v2 and v3 but just nearly as many as the BEFSR41 models.
>
> The BEFSR11 is a waste unless one already owns or plans to own a managed Ethernet switch.
>
.... or an unmanaged switch.

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 >> Stay informed about: router contains a built-in switch versus router without a .. 

David H. Lipman wrote:

> From: "CJT" <abujlehc DeleteThis @prodigy.net>
>
> | David H. Lipman wrote:
>
>>>From: "CJT" <abujlehc DeleteThis @prodigy.net>
>>>
>>>< snip >
>>>
> |>> yes (theoretically it could be a hub rather than a switch, but I doubt
> |>> anybody does that)
> |>>
>
>>>< snip >
>>>
>>>An Ethernet switch can NOT be a hub.
>
> |
> | That's like saying red can't be green. I didn't say a hub could be a
> | switch. I said a hub could be combined with a router, just as a switch
> | can be combined with a router. But I doubt anybody does.
>
> That's not what you said.. What you said is above < snip> and that is what I responded to.
> Now if you meant something else, your wording made it come out differently.
>
Apparently I was imprecise, leaving the antecedent to "it" dangling and
unclear. Sorry.

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 >> Stay informed about: router contains a built-in switch versus router without a .. 

jrefactors DeleteThis @hotmail.com wrote:
> What's the differences between
>
> router contains a built-in switch
> and
> router without a built-in switch??

These days all home broadband routers contain a built-in switch. Now
whether they are good-quality switches vs. standalone switches is a
matter of debate.

In the olden days you had home routers that only had one port for the
WAN side, and one port for the LAN side, and nothing else. That meant
that if you wanted to connect multiple computers to that LAN side, then
you had to buy a seperate hub or switch. I had one of those types of
routers, it was an old Linksys. I had to connect the LAN port to a hub,
and then I could connect computers to the hub.

Now, I hope you know what the difference is between a hub and a switch.
If not, then a switch is just a more sophisticated suped-up hub. Whereas
hubs had a lot of collisions between packets as multiple computers tried
to access the Ethernet simultaneously, the switch took the hub concept
and made it a much more managed experience. It's sort of like the
difference between a road with traffic lights and a road without.

> Some routers even have built-in firewall.

Actually, all home routers have a built-in firewall. It's a natural
feature that emerges from how they work. They can't help but also act as
firewalls. They use a feature called NAT (natural address translation)
which means that they give all computers in the LAN these special fake
IP addresses which can't be seen on the Internet, only the router's own
WAN IP address can be seen -- natural firewall.


> I saw many routers in the market has built-in switch, but I don't know
> why, and what's the advantages?

Avoid having to pay for an additional network component, if everything
is built in. Cheaper to package it all together.

Yousuf Khan
 >> Stay informed about: router contains a built-in switch versus router without a .. 

Yousuf Khan wrote:
> jrefactors.RemoveThis@hotmail.com wrote:
> > What's the differences between
> >
> > router contains a built-in switch
> > and
> > router without a built-in switch??
>
> These days all home broadband routers contain a built-in switch. Now
> whether they are good-quality switches vs. standalone switches is a
> matter of debate.
>
> In the olden days you had home routers that only had one port for
> the WAN side, and one port for the LAN side, and nothing else. That
> meant that if you wanted to connect multiple computers to that LAN
> side, then you had to buy a seperate hub or switch. I had one of
> those types of routers, it was an old Linksys. I had to connect the
> LAN port to a hub, and then I could connect computers to the hub.
>
> Now, I hope you know what the difference is between a hub and a
> switch. If not, then a switch is just a more sophisticated suped-up
> hub. Whereas hubs had a lot of collisions between packets as
> multiple computers tried to access the Ethernet simultaneously, the
> switch took the hub concept and made it a much more managed
> experience. It's sort of like the difference between a road with
> traffic lights and a road without.
>
> > Some routers even have built-in firewall.
>
> Actually, all home routers have a built-in firewall. It's a natural
> feature that emerges from how they work. They can't help but also
> act as firewalls. They use a feature called NAT (natural address
> translation) which means that they give all computers in the LAN
> these special fake IP addresses which can't be seen on the
> Internet, only the router's own WAN IP address can be seen --
> natural firewall.
>
>
> > I saw many routers in the market has built-in switch, but I don't
> > know why, and what's the advantages?
>
> Avoid having to pay for an additional network component, if
> everything is built in. Cheaper to package it all together.
>
> Yousuf Khan

It is called Network Address Translation.

--


Travis in Shoreline Washington
 >> Stay informed about: router contains a built-in switch versus router without a .. 

jrefactors RemoveThis @hotmail.com wrote:
> What's the differences between
>
> router contains a built-in switch
> and
> router without a built-in switch??
>
> Some routers even have built-in firewall.
>
> I saw many routers in the market has built-in switch, but I don't know
> why, and what's the advantages?
>
> please advise. thanks!!

I think you will find that the truth is far far worse than you could
ever imagine.

'home routers' are - i've been told - are not routers. They are NAT
devices. They contain a switch. And a firewall. And a modem.


Regarding 'routers' without a built in switch . May be a real router.
Or it may be a simple thing.
Often so-called DSL Modems like ones made by DLink or Linksys, are
actually 'home routers' with only 1 port. NAT devices without a
switch. so if you want to connect many computers, then attach your own
switch.

Professional proper routers (like Cisco) have many ports, each is a
router interface, each with its own IP. Each is for a connected
network.
No switch.

a NAT Device receiving an incoming packet, does not 'route it', it does
not decide what network to sends the packet to. Only your network is
attached. It just allows it or rejects it. And depending on how it is
configured, sends the packet to whatever computer is attached. Go to
www.whatismyip.com and i you're behind a NAT device, you get the IP
Address of your NAT device. People send packets not to you, but to
your NAT device. Your NAT device does port forwarding to choose which
of your comp on your network to send it to. This is not routing at
all. Routing is about deciding which network to (not which comp and not
just on 1 network) send it to, using routing tables, and the Sending
computer will include the Dest IP of teh network to send to. With NAT,
the sending computer only specifies the NAT device. So the NAT device
is choosing which comp to send it to. With a *Router*, (not a 'home
router'). Packets are not addressed to the Router, they are addressed
to the comp. The Router doesn't choose which local comp to send it to,
it looks at the IP, sees it doesn't have to route it anywhere, since it
is on a directly connected network, and it sends it to the right
computer.


I am a newbie, and will be using real routers this year! But I read
about them. I am just interested in computers and connecting them
together. So, frmo a techie perspective, a real router is more fun.

>From a consumer perspective. If you only need one network (very
likely), then a NAT device ('home router') is fine.

Linksys make good 'home routers'(NAT Devices), get one with a built in
switch. And a hole for a telephone cable - meaning it has a built in
modem. 4 port switch, So you can attach - say - 4 computers. If you
want more you can connect another switch to a port anyway.
 >> Stay informed about: router contains a built-in switch versus router without a .. 

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 >> Stay informed about: router contains a built-in switch versus router without a .. 

Jonathan Wilson wrote:

>> 'home routers' are - i've been told - are not routers. They are NAT
>> devices. They contain a switch. And a firewall. And a modem.
>
> Home routers ARE routers.
> They route between the outside network (the network between the home
> router and the first router at your ISP) and the internal network (the
> non-world-visible home network you have).
> They can contain a firewall and indeed some do.
> They also implement Network Address Translation (or NAT) and Port
> Address Translation (or PAT aka port forwarding) and they contain a
> cable or DSL MODEM (whether it is techincally a MODEM, all the
> manufacturers call it a MODEM).
> They will also usually contain a DHCP server to assign IP addresses to
> all the machines on the internal network.
>
> For example in my case, we have a single IP address from the ISP.
>
> My PC has a private address (in the 192.168.1.x range).
> Other PCs in this house also have a 192.168.1.x address, as does the
> router itself.
> So, all the machines on the internal network including the router make
> up the 192.168.1.x class C private network.
> Then, there is another network with my home router on it plus the router
> at the ISP.
> The home router routes traffic between the 192.168.1.x network and the
> router-ISP network.
Oh and btw, I am currently studying Cisco CCNA network certification so I
DO know what I am talking about
 >> Stay informed about: router contains a built-in switch versus router without a .. 

> 'home routers' are - i've been told - are not routers. They are NAT
> devices. They contain a switch. And a firewall. And a modem.
Home routers ARE routers.
They route between the outside network (the network between the home router
and the first router at your ISP) and the internal network (the
non-world-visible home network you have).
They can contain a firewall and indeed some do.
They also implement Network Address Translation (or NAT) and Port Address
Translation (or PAT aka port forwarding) and they contain a cable or DSL
MODEM (whether it is techincally a MODEM, all the manufacturers call it a
MODEM).
They will also usually contain a DHCP server to assign IP addresses to all
the machines on the internal network.

For example in my case, we have a single IP address from the ISP.

My PC has a private address (in the 192.168.1.x range).
Other PCs in this house also have a 192.168.1.x address, as does the router
itself.
So, all the machines on the internal network including the router make up
the 192.168.1.x class C private network.
Then, there is another network with my home router on it plus the router at
the ISP.
The home router routes traffic between the 192.168.1.x network and the
router-ISP network.
 >> Stay informed about: router contains a built-in switch versus router without a .. 

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 >> Stay informed about: router contains a built-in switch versus router without a .. 

Jonathan Wilson wrote:

> Jonathan Wilson wrote:
>
>>> 'home routers' are - i've been told - are not routers. They are NAT
>>> devices. They contain a switch. And a firewall. And a modem.
>>
>>
>> Home routers ARE routers.
>> They route between the outside network (the network between the home
>> router and the first router at your ISP) and the internal network (the
>> non-world-visible home network you have).
>> They can contain a firewall and indeed some do.
>> They also implement Network Address Translation (or NAT) and Port
>> Address Translation (or PAT aka port forwarding) and they contain a
>> cable or DSL MODEM (whether it is techincally a MODEM, all the
>> manufacturers call it a MODEM).

Given your credentials, you must know that is sometimes, but not always
true. Not all home routers contain what manufacturers call a modem;
that is a separate function.

>> They will also usually contain a DHCP server to assign IP addresses to
>> all the machines on the internal network.

Some also contain PPPoE or similar functionality.
>>
>> For example in my case, we have a single IP address from the ISP.
>>
>> My PC has a private address (in the 192.168.1.x range).
>> Other PCs in this house also have a 192.168.1.x address, as does the
>> router itself.
>> So, all the machines on the internal network including the router make
>> up the 192.168.1.x class C private network.
>> Then, there is another network with my home router on it plus the
>> router at the ISP.
>> The home router routes traffic between the 192.168.1.x network and the
>> router-ISP network.
>
> Oh and btw, I am currently studying Cisco CCNA network certification so
> I DO know what I am talking about


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 >> Stay informed about: router contains a built-in switch versus router without a .. 

> Given your credentials, you must know that is sometimes, but not always
> true. Not all home routers contain what manufacturers call a modem;
> that is a separate function.
I was unaware that routers exist that do not contain modems (actually, I
probobly knew at one point and just forgot
 >> Stay informed about: router contains a built-in switch versus router without a .. 

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 >> Stay informed about: router contains a built-in switch versus router without a ..