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Next: 21" monitors: quality at low resolutions
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External
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Posts: 7
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 12:00 am
Post subject: Do all video cards require AGP slots?
Archived from groups: comp>sys>ibm>pc>hardware>video (more info?)
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I am thinking of buying a compact PC (an IBM ThinkCentre S50
actually) with two PCI slots and no AGP slots. I am not a gamer,
and as long as I have a CRT monitor I will be satisfied to use the
Intel 865 chipset's on-board Extreme Graphics 2 (yes I know it's
considered slow, but it will be an enormous improvement over what
I am using now). However at some point down the line I may get a
flat panel monitor, and I have been told that if you use an analog
connection to a flat panel monitor the resolution will suffer. I
don't care much about speed, but I *do* care about resolution, and
if this is the case then I would probably want to pair a new monitor
with a digital video card. However, as I said, I don't have an
AGP slot, and, further, I don't know how much this matters. So
here are my questions:
1) What is the connection between AGP and PCI? Are there any video
cards with do not require an AGP slot? The best case scenario
would be if any AGP card could be installed in a PCI slot with no
bad consequences other than a loss of performance. Is this the case?
2) Is it true that flat panel monitors don't work well with analog
connections? If there are problems how noticeable are they?
Thanks in advance for any comments. In addition I would very much
appreciate pointers to any good web sites which discuss these issues
(it's not much use to Google on "video card" and "AGP"!!!).
--
John Brock
jbrock DeleteThis @panix.com |
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External
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Posts: 7
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 1:05 am
Post subject: Re: Do all video cards require AGP slots? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <be5801$6ep$1@panix2.panix.com>,
John Brock <jbrock DeleteThis @panix.com> wrote:
>I am thinking of buying a compact PC (an IBM ThinkCentre S50
>actually) with two PCI slots and no AGP slots. I am not a gamer,
>and as long as I have a CRT monitor I will be satisfied to use the
>Intel 865 chipset's on-board Extreme Graphics 2 (yes I know it's
>considered slow, but it will be an enormous improvement over what
>I am using now). However at some point down the line I may get a
>flat panel monitor, and I have been told that if you use an analog
>connection to a flat panel monitor the resolution will suffer. I
>don't care much about speed, but I *do* care about resolution, and
>if this is the case then I would probably want to pair a new monitor
>with a digital video card. However, as I said, I don't have an
>AGP slot, and, further, I don't know how much this matters. So
>here are my questions:
[...]
Here is an additional question which I should have included in my
first post:
3) What is the situation with digital video cards? Have they
standardized on a single common interface, or do different flat
panel monitors require different digital video cards?
--
John Brock
jbrock DeleteThis @panix.com<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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External
Since: Nov 08, 2003
Posts: 160
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 11:39 am
Post subject: Re: Do all video cards require AGP slots? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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I've taken the liberty of combining your two earlier posts.
On 4 Jul 2003
22:05:17-0400 jbrock.RemoveThis@panix.com (John Brock) wrote:
> I am thinking of buying a compact PC (an IBM ThinkCentre S50
> actually) with two PCI slots and no AGP slots. I am not a gamer,
> and as long as I have a CRT monitor I will be satisfied to use the
> Intel 865 chipset's on-board Extreme Graphics 2 (yes I know it's
> considered slow, but it will be an enormous improvement over what
> I am using now). However at some point down the line I may get a
> flat panel monitor, and I have been told that if you use an analog
> connection to a flat panel monitor the resolution will suffer. I
> don't care much about speed, but I *do* care about resolution, and
> if this is the case then I would probably want to pair a new monitor
> with a digital video card. However, as I said, I don't have an
> AGP slot, and, further, I don't know how much this matters. So
> here are my questions:
>
> 1) What is the connection between AGP and PCI?
AGP is a higher performance standard designed specifically to support
video devices. There's not a whole lot of relation between them.
> Are there any video
> cards with do not require an AGP slot?
Yes. There are many PCI video boards on the market. Go over to
<http://www.newegg.com> and you should be able to find several without
too much trouble.
> The best case scenario
> would be if any AGP card could be installed in a PCI slot with no
> bad consequences other than a loss of performance. Is this the case?
Not possible. The slots are physically different--an AGP board
physically won't fit into a PCI slot.
> 2) Is it true that flat panel monitors don't work well with analog
> connections? If there are problems how noticeable are they?
No. They work fine with analog connections. They just work a bit
better with digital.
> 3) What is the situation with digital video cards? Have they
> standardized on a single common interface, or do different flat
> panel monitors require different digital video cards?
The digital interface was standardized quite some time ago. Do read the
fine print though--some monitors require a double link to achieve their
peak resolution, which some video boards do not provide.
> Thanks in advance for any comments. In addition I would very much
> appreciate pointers to any good web sites which discuss these issues
> (it's not much use to Google on "video card" and "AGP"!!!).
Try googling "DVI". Check the web sites of video board and monitor
manufacturers.
> --
> > --
> John Brock
> jbrock.RemoveThis@panix.com
>
--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Do all video cards require AGP slots? |
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External
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Posts: 7
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 2:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Do all video cards require AGP slots? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <20030705083931.6564cb4c.jclarke.TakeThisOut@attglobal.net>,
J.Clarke <jclarke.TakeThisOut@attglobal.net> wrote:
>On 4 Jul 2003
>22:05:17-0400 jbrock.TakeThisOut@panix.com (John Brock) wrote:
>> Are there any video
>> cards with do not require an AGP slot?
>Yes. There are many PCI video boards on the market. Go over to
><http://www.newegg.com> and you should be able to find several without
>too much trouble.
NewEgg has a nice search feature which lets me look for cards with
specific characteristics. While there were a fair number of PCI
video cards, when I restricted the First Output to "DVI" (I assume
this specifies a digital card) I only got one. (I also got one
when I specified "Composite Port", whatever that may be). I get
the feeling that if three years down the road I want to find a
digital PCI video card which also has drivers for Linux or BSD I
might have a really tough time! Would you agree?
>> The best case scenario
>> would be if any AGP card could be installed in a PCI slot with no
>> bad consequences other than a loss of performance. Is this the case?
>Not possible. The slots are physically different--an AGP board
>physically won't fit into a PCI slot.
And since, as someone else has noted, you can't install a PCI card
in a AGP slot, that would probably explain why IBM put two PCI slot
in their compact PCs rather than one PCI and one AGP.
>> 2) Is it true that flat panel monitors don't work well with analog
>> connections? If there are problems how noticeable are they?
>No. They work fine with analog connections. They just work a bit
>better with digital.
OK. I have a co-worker who told me that the difference was noticeable
and annoying, while you are saying it is small. Another data point.
>> 3) What is the situation with digital video cards? Have they
>> standardized on a single common interface, or do different flat
>> panel monitors require different digital video cards?
>
>The digital interface was standardized quite some time ago. Do read the
>fine print though--some monitors require a double link to achieve their
>peak resolution, which some video boards do not provide.
>
>> Thanks in advance for any comments. In addition I would very much
>> appreciate pointers to any good web sites which discuss these issues
>> (it's not much use to Google on "video card" and "AGP"!!!).
>Try googling "DVI". Check the web sites of video board and monitor
>manufacturers.
Yikes! DVI-I. DVI-D. DVI-A. DFP. P&D. I need to do some reading!
--
John Brock
jbrock.TakeThisOut@panix.com<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Do all video cards require AGP slots? |
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External
Since: Jun 30, 2003
Posts: 7
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 5:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Do all video cards require AGP slots? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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John Brock wrote:
> I am thinking of buying a compact PC (an IBM ThinkCentre S50
> actually) with two PCI slots and no AGP slots. I am not a gamer,
> and as long as I have a CRT monitor I will be satisfied to use the
> Intel 865 chipset's on-board Extreme Graphics 2 (yes I know it's
> considered slow, but it will be an enormous improvement over what
> I am using now). However at some point down the line I may get a
> flat panel monitor, and I have been told that if you use an analog
> connection to a flat panel monitor the resolution will suffer. I
> don't care much about speed, but I *do* care about resolution, and
> if this is the case then I would probably want to pair a new monitor
> with a digital video card. However, as I said, I don't have an
> AGP slot, and, further, I don't know how much this matters. So
> here are my questions:
>
> 1) What is the connection between AGP and PCI?
AGP is has got better performance than PCI. (I am not too sure abt the
differences in picture qualitites resulting from different slots)
Are there any video cards with do not require an AGP slot?
Yes. The older generations of the graphics card. And limited range.
The best case scenario would be if any AGP card could be installed in
a PCI slot with no
> bad consequences other than a loss of performance. Is this the case
Don't think so that a AGP card can be installed onto a PCI slot because
the part that connect the AGP card to the AGP slot is longer than the
PCI slot itself. (Someone pls correct me if i am wrong)
>
> 2) Is it true that flat panel monitors don't work well with analog
> connections? If there are problems how noticeable are they?
No. LCD do work very well with analog input too. If LCD do not work
well with analog, the leading manufacturers wouldn't come up with
products that has dual inputs/ analog only inputs. As far as i know,
for digital inputs, there are less manual adjustments to be done (such
as phase and clock). And also, digital signals are less prone to
interference than analog signals, as a result, digital connection can
give rise to better picture qualities if the environment is 'noisy'.
>
> Thanks in advance for any comments. In addition I would very much
> appreciate pointers to any good web sites which discuss these issues
> (it's not much use to Google on "video card" and "AGP"!!!).<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Do all video cards require AGP slots? |
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External
Since: Sep 03, 2003
Posts: 35
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 6:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Do all video cards require AGP slots? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"J.Clarke" <jclarke RemoveThis @attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:20030705083931.6564cb4c.jclarke@attglobal.net...
> I've taken the liberty of combining your two earlier posts.
>
> On 4 Jul 2003
> 22:05:17-0400 jbrock RemoveThis @panix.com (John Brock) wrote:
>
> > I am thinking of buying a compact PC (an IBM ThinkCentre S50
> > actually) with two PCI slots and no AGP slots. I am not a gamer,
> > and as long as I have a CRT monitor I will be satisfied to use the
> > Intel 865 chipset's on-board Extreme Graphics 2 (yes I know it's
> > considered slow, but it will be an enormous improvement over what
> > I am using now). However at some point down the line I may get a
> > flat panel monitor, and I have been told that if you use an analog
> > connection to a flat panel monitor the resolution will suffer. I
> > don't care much about speed, but I *do* care about resolution, and
> > if this is the case then I would probably want to pair a new monitor
> > with a digital video card. However, as I said, I don't have an
> > AGP slot, and, further, I don't know how much this matters. So
> > here are my questions:
> >
> > 1) What is the connection between AGP and PCI?
>
> AGP is a higher performance standard designed specifically to support
> video devices. There's not a whole lot of relation between them.
That's not entirely true. The AGP bus is really a superset of the PCI bus,
that's why it's so easy for manufacturers to make PCI versions of their AGP
cards (you more or less just let the AGP leads hanging).
/M<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Do all video cards require AGP slots? |
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External
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Posts: 7
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 6:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Do all video cards require AGP slots? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <be6kb1$btp$1@hudsucker.umdac.umu.se>,
Martin Eriksson <martin.RemoveThis@norrsken.dhs.org> wrote:
>"J.Clarke" <jclarke.RemoveThis@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>news:20030705083931.6564cb4c.jclarke@attglobal.net...
>> I've taken the liberty of combining your two earlier posts.
>>
>> On 4 Jul 2003
>> 22:05:17-0400 jbrock.RemoveThis@panix.com (John Brock) wrote:
>>
>> > I am thinking of buying a compact PC (an IBM ThinkCentre S50
>> > actually) with two PCI slots and no AGP slots. I am not a gamer,
>> > and as long as I have a CRT monitor I will be satisfied to use the
>> > Intel 865 chipset's on-board Extreme Graphics 2 (yes I know it's
>> > considered slow, but it will be an enormous improvement over what
>> > I am using now). However at some point down the line I may get a
>> > flat panel monitor, and I have been told that if you use an analog
>> > connection to a flat panel monitor the resolution will suffer. I
>> > don't care much about speed, but I *do* care about resolution, and
>> > if this is the case then I would probably want to pair a new monitor
>> > with a digital video card. However, as I said, I don't have an
>> > AGP slot, and, further, I don't know how much this matters. So
>> > here are my questions:
>> >
>> > 1) What is the connection between AGP and PCI?
>> AGP is a higher performance standard designed specifically to support
>> video devices. There's not a whole lot of relation between them.
>That's not entirely true. The AGP bus is really a superset of the PCI bus,
>that's why it's so easy for manufacturers to make PCI versions of their AGP
>cards (you more or less just let the AGP leads hanging).
If AGP is a superset of PCI would that mean that you can install
a PCI card in an AGP slot (but not the reverse)?
--
John Brock
jbrock.RemoveThis@panix.com<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Do all video cards require AGP slots? |
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External
Since: Sep 03, 2003
Posts: 35
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 7:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Do all video cards require AGP slots? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"John Brock" <jbrock.RemoveThis@panix.com> wrote in message
news:be6o2v$chm$1@panix3.panix.com...
> In article <be6kb1$btp$1@hudsucker.umdac.umu.se>,
> Martin Eriksson <martin.RemoveThis@norrsken.dhs.org> wrote:
> >"J.Clarke" <jclarke.RemoveThis@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> >news:20030705083931.6564cb4c.jclarke@attglobal.net...
> >> I've taken the liberty of combining your two earlier posts.
> >>
> >> On 4 Jul 2003
> >> 22:05:17-0400 jbrock.RemoveThis@panix.com (John Brock) wrote:
> >>
> >> > I am thinking of buying a compact PC (an IBM ThinkCentre S50
> >> > actually) with two PCI slots and no AGP slots. I am not a gamer,
> >> > and as long as I have a CRT monitor I will be satisfied to use the
> >> > Intel 865 chipset's on-board Extreme Graphics 2 (yes I know it's
> >> > considered slow, but it will be an enormous improvement over what
> >> > I am using now). However at some point down the line I may get a
> >> > flat panel monitor, and I have been told that if you use an analog
> >> > connection to a flat panel monitor the resolution will suffer. I
> >> > don't care much about speed, but I *do* care about resolution, and
> >> > if this is the case then I would probably want to pair a new monitor
> >> > with a digital video card. However, as I said, I don't have an
> >> > AGP slot, and, further, I don't know how much this matters. So
> >> > here are my questions:
> >> >
> >> > 1) What is the connection between AGP and PCI?
>
> >> AGP is a higher performance standard designed specifically to support
> >> video devices. There's not a whole lot of relation between them.
>
> >That's not entirely true. The AGP bus is really a superset of the PCI
bus,
> >that's why it's so easy for manufacturers to make PCI versions of their
AGP
> >cards (you more or less just let the AGP leads hanging).
>
> If AGP is a superset of PCI would that mean that you can install
> a PCI card in an AGP slot (but not the reverse)?
You can't do anything of this, because the AGP and PCI *slots* are entirely
different (multilevel connectors etc), but the AGP bus incorporates a PCI
bus "signal-wise".
That's when you might see (in some hardware information applications) that
your AGP card is fitted in "PCI bus 1, slot 0" as the AGP bus is also a PCI
bus.
When you set your AGP aperture really low in your BIOS (4 MB) the AGP bus
effectively becomes a PCI bus (except for the fact that the slots are
different) as the AGP extensions aren't used.
/M<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Do all video cards require AGP slots? |
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